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Thread: Article: Twins To Sign RHP Kevin Correia

  1. #81
    The most disappointing thing about this isn't the signing/player itself. It's that it shows that Ryan still doesn't "get it" when it comes to acquiring pitchers. I was hoping that recent moves to acquire guys like Meyers, May, Worley, and the draft picks meant he understood that the traditional W-L and ERA stats were not the best to base decisions on. Yet, here he is out there paying a premium for a guy that only looks okay if you just look at his W-L record.

    There really isn't any reason to believe Correia is going to be any better than a handful of guys the Twins already have on their roster at or close to the league minimum. I just don't get investing 2 years at 5 million each in a guy like this. Goes back to what a lot have been saying over the last year, it's not that Twins don't spend enough, it's that they don't spend wisely.

  2. #82
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    On the plus side, we have 20 million dollars to spend. Put 7 million/yr towards Youkilis and 13 million/yr towards Jackson/Marcum.
    If the MLB trade rumors site is to be believed, Youkilis Seriously Considering Yankees: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com, Youk has a $12M offer in hand from the Yankees. Minnesota's paltry revenue stream from funding Target Field pales in comparison to what drives this market.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

    What on earth is Ryan thinking?
    No he isn't. He doesn't piss and moan about defensive alignment and fielders missing balls. He doesn't throw a tantrum on the mound when he doesn't get a call. Guy hasn't even threw a pitch for us and he is crucified.

    I will take anything over Blackburn at this point. Target Field is great unless you get to watch a game Blackie "battles his tail off".

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by panolo View Post
    No he isn't. He doesn't piss and moan about defensive alignment and fielders missing balls. He doesn't throw a tantrum on the mound when he doesn't get a call. Guy hasn't even threw a pitch for us and he is crucified.

    I will take anything over Blackburn at this point. Target Field is great unless you get to watch a game Blackie "battles his tail off".
    Well, we don't know if Correia bitches and moans, but we do know he's guaranteed 10 million over the next 2 years. As someone who sat through one of Marquis gawd-awful starts at Target field last year, I don't see anything in Correia's history to suggest the results are going to be much different, other than we are now on the hook for 2 years making it harder to cut bait if necessary. Seriously if you aren't even good enough to be the 5th starter on the Pirates, why are the Twins guaranteeing you 2 years salary? Who were they competing with?
    Last edited by whydidnt; 12-11-2012 at 01:12 PM.

  5. #85
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

    What on earth is Ryan thinking?
    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

  6. #86
    There hasn't been any confirmation of this deal. I wonder what the hang up is.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Like most, I think the second year is what I don't get. I think Correia can be a perfectly adequate pitcher for the Twins next year. And therein lies the problem. Adequate is the best you're going to get from Correia. There's nothing to look at to say, "he can be really good for us." Nothing. Why give two years to that?

    That being said, if he can be adequate without having drastic swings game-to-game, I can live with this. More than anything else about our pitching lately was the unknown quality of pitching you were going to get in any given game. I can understand completely the notion that Deduno or DeVries or Walters or Hendricks can give you everything Correia could. They "could." They could also give you what the Twins got to start last year from Hendricks and Marquis and Blackburn. Even people who thought Marquis and Blackburn last season wouldn't be good weren't predicting that level of awful. We badly need to avoid that pathetic show of pitching that we started the season with last year. That was the most unbelievably putrid display of pitching for most of April that you could possibly have, and relying on Deduno, DeVries, Hendricks, Walters to avoid that is... I'm not even sure what to call it. Risky, but that's not exactly it. With Correia at least you can see that he's been a marginally successful Major League pitcher for 5 years or so. Those other guys? Less than half a season, with massive warning signs flashing over all of them.

    I still hate this move, though.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanatic Jack View Post
    2-years, $10 million for this bum. ... I think we all have to start thinking on another level like the Twins. Every single move they make is about saving money. Nothing more and nothing less.
    I've seen this sentiment in other threads about the Correia signing also. Can someone explain how overpaying a guy by somewhere between 2 and 10 times is a sign of cheapness or an attempt to save money? Is paying $50,000 for a used Ford Focus a sign that I'm trying to save money?

  9. #89
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    There are two points to be taken here:
    1. Pitchers stats look better on winning teams, it is hard to sign good pitchers to play on lower ranking teams without significantly overpaying them.
    2. Terry Ryan is looking to improve the Twins for the next 2 years until the (hopefully) next wave of good and great Twins players arrives. He does not seem to believe in the current crop of upper level Twins pitchers except as AAA starters to make Rochester compete for playoff spots. This reflects on prior management and also bad luck with a number of arm injuries.

  10. #90
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    Cdog, if you are racing in the Indy 500, yes, spending 50k on a bad car is cheap. The signing has to be in context of the Twins needs and the market. This signing is bad primarily for the length. If this is fixing the rotation, then it is cheap. If they now sign 2 legit pitchers, this isn't cheap, it is just likely a bad deal.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Cdog, if you are racing in the Indy 500, yes, spending 50k on a bad car is cheap. The signing has to be in context of the Twins needs and the market. This signing is bad primarily for the length. If this is fixing the rotation, then it is cheap. If they now sign 2 legit pitchers, this isn't cheap, it is just likely a bad deal.
    But if I'm planning on running the race in the Focus...why is spending way too much on it a sign of cheapness? That's the part I'm questioning, not the overall willingness or ability to spend. I try hard to stay out of those discussions for many reasons, but in this particular case I don't see why it's a sign of cheapness to way, way, way overpay what someone is worth. If they're just looking to save the money, wouldn't NOT spending it be a better way to do it? I say either way, it's just a bad deal, not a cheap deal. I think we're maybe just on semantics.

  12. #92
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    Probably semantics mostly at this point....yes.

  13. #93
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    On the plus side, we have 20 million dollars to spend. Put 7 million/yr towards Youkilis and 13 million/yr towards Jackson/Marcum.
    If the MLB trade rumors site is to be believed, Youkilis Seriously Considering Yankees: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com, Youk has a $12M offer in hand from the Yankees. Minnesota's paltry revenue stream from funding Target Field pales in comparison to what drives this market.
    Well I guess if the Yankees want a player, there is no way anyone else has a chance at getting him. I'd go up to $10M on Youkilis for one year and offseason handbook (I believe) had him going a 7 million a year. Regardless, we need an infielder that can hit for right handed power in addition to a premiere pitcher.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    Well, we don't know if Correia bitches and moans, but we do know he's guaranteed 10 million over the next 2 years. As someone who sat through one of Marquis gawd-awful starts at Target field last year, I don't see anything in Correia's history to suggest the results are going to be much different, other than we are now on the hook for 2 years making it harder to cut bait if necessary. Seriously if you aren't even good enough to be the 5th starter on the Pirates, why are the Twins guaranteeing you 2 years salary? Who were they competing with?
    I didn't spend hours researching Correia but I didn't find any instances of a terrible attitude. He did have his agent ask for a trade after he went to the bullpen. Sounds like he handled it like a pro.

    Looking at Correia last year he would have helped us win a few games. If he gives us 175 IP with the same stat line he will help us win games this year. I also don't see why you would get hung up on him not being the 5th starter for the Pirates when he would have started here all year long with his lines. They made a trade for a pretty decent pitcher to fill his spot.

    We aren't debating Cy Young here and I am not trying to be a Correia apologist. We are talking about a 5th starter on most teams who may be elevated to a #4 here. If he can stay in line with what he has done his last 40 starts or so $5mil is a pretty fair price.

  15. #95
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    There hasn't been any confirmation of this deal. I wonder what the hang up is.
    He's probably asking for more money after hearing about the warm welcome from the fans.

  16. #96
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.
    The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

    With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

    I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

    And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

  17. #97
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanatic Jack View Post
    2-years, $10 million for this bum. ... I think we all have to start thinking on another level like the Twins. Every single move they make is about saving money. Nothing more and nothing less.
    I've seen this sentiment in other threads about the Correia signing also. Can someone explain how overpaying a guy by somewhere between 2 and 10 times is a sign of cheapness or an attempt to save money? Is paying $50,000 for a used Ford Focus a sign that I'm trying to save money?
    You're too cheap to fork over an extra $5000 and drive a Navigator. I think that's the idea.

  18. #98
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.
    The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

    With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

    I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

    And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
    I won't project Correia in 2013. Won't even try. But I gotta tell ya... The more I look at his 2012 numbers... They don't scream terrible... Its Twins Daily that is screaming terrible... The numbers scream average... And if he can just keep us in games at the same percentage he did last year with the Pirates. We can then start to find out if our position players have any fight in them.

    Lets get some more arms... I'm ready for the next one... And I love reading the reactions.

  19. #99
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    Gotta hand it to you Riverbrian...you really give it your all to back Ryan's moves. Way to stick to your guns

  20. #100
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

    What on earth is Ryan thinking?
    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.
    Good for Correia that he wasn't capable of the other worldly and historically colossal decrepitude that Nick Blackburn is. For a metaphorical visual of that comparison, a 4 looks a lot sexier when standing next to a 1....and yet it's still a 4.

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