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Thread: Rays/Royals Blockbuster deal SUN

  1. #41
    The Royals have an excellent young catcher in Salvador Perez, so they're O.K. behind the plate. In the short term, K.C. will be better and if some of their young hitters take off next year they could be competitive. However, if they don't pony up the money and sign Shields to an extension this will be a disaster for them. Myers might end up being a bust (I doubt it) and he's just the kind of young hitter the Rays need to build around with Longoria with all that good young pitching they have. On a scale of 1 to 100, the Rays get a 70 and the Royals a 30.

  2. #42
    Great trade for the Twins. By the time the Twins are relevant, Shields will be gone but Myers will still be 5 years away from free agency, but playing in the East.

  3. #43
    I think the Rays took the Royals to the cleaners. Shields is good, but not worth that price. And let's not forget, the Royals had Greinke and how far did he take them?

  4. #44
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    This trade gives the Royals 6 starting pithers for next season. They look to have a good bullpen and decent offense. The could use a RF and they did overpay on this trade but it does move them up to contender status which is where you want your club to be. The Royals still have prospects and if they draft smart next year are in position to add as they should have a top 10 pick. I would have rather found a way to sign Sanchez to the 6 year 90 million and trade Butler or someone making 7 million and keep the prospects, but I am not the GM.

  5. #45
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    In fairness, I do like the concept of going for it. I just did not like this version much. If it works in the next two years, even if Meyers is great, it was worth it. I just do not think the odds are good it will work.

  6. #46
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    I totally disagree. The Royals have a ton of young talent, not just in the minors but on the major league roster too. Davis is under team control until 2017 and Shields through 2014. They gave up a lot but people calling Shields a #2 haven't seen the Royals and Twins pitch in the last 3 years. Shields is only a #2 on one of the most stocked rotations in the league. Shields is probably the 2nd best starter in the division behind Verlander and is LIGHT YEARS from anything the Twins will trot out in the foreseeable future. At some point people need to realize the goal of the game is to win titles. What point do the Royals wait to contend? They've built their prospects up and they are using those assets to step up and contend. That's the point. Not tell your fans you are going to contend and sign Jason Marquis every year.

    I hope the Twins do the same thing. Build up their minor league stable and graduate some to the majors but use others to make deals to make a run. They are already doing the first part by rebuilding their minor league talent.

  7. #47
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    I read that the A's turned down a Myers for Anderson deal. That's stunning. Maybe Myers is really overvalued by those outside baseball. Anderson is a good pitcher but he missed nearly all of last year. Odorzzi has a fip over 4.00 in AA and AAA. Montgomery fell completely apart last year. And Shields and Davis are known quantities. I still don't like the trade for the Royals but it makes more sense with a little more thought.

    And this is a good time to try and win the central. Tigers aren't that good, especially if they don't resign Sanchez. Twins have a real nice system setting up a solid 2014-15 team. There is a window here.

  8. #48
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    The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

    Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

    Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.
    I think the corresponding trade from a Twins perspective would have been Sano (Myers), May (Odozzri), Benson (Montgomery) and Kepler (last guy).

    I'm not trying to argue KC got the better deal. But I'm not sure it's as one sided as I originally thought. If KC is right on Myers, they did ok.

    Cost of pitching is insane right now. We gave up two starting center fielders (under 8 years of team control) for one mid rotation guy and two prospects. Grienke is getting 24m/yr. Dempster is turning down 24m. Sanchez is insulted by 4/48. Nats and Reds gave up tons for Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos. Oakland turned down Myers for Anderson. Baker got 5.5 guaranteed coming off TJ surgery. Someone will give Liriano more than that.

  10. #50
    Shockingly, Fangraphs hates the trade from the Royals' perspective.
    Royals Mortgage Future To Be Mediocre In 2013 | FanGraphs Baseball

  11. #51
    This is a fun trade to discuss. I think if the Twins went ahead and traded for Shields, we'd have questioned what message they are trying to send. First they trade two MLB ready CF's for pitching. Then they aquire more pitching and sell off prospects for it. It wouldn't have made much sense. We need our hitting prospects to go with our pitching prospects for 14-15 and beyond.

    Did the Royals over-pay? A lot of the majority feels like they did. However, if I were them, I'd of done the same. I can't imagine the frusturation Royals fans face on an annual basis. They are always promised a better tomorrow, but it never comes. Eventually, you need to do something. I went to KC in 2011 towards the end of the year to see the Twins play the Royals. Their stadium was awesome and they had decent fans. The employees there was top notch. Overall, a very good experience. Those fans deserve something to cheer about. I live in Milwaukee, so I got to see a pretty good dose of Net Yost (Royals manager). He's been with them for a while now and deserves a chance to win.

    IDK if this will get the Royals over the hump, but they also might not be done. Don't rule them out for signing a big bat or another pitcher (maybe bullpen help)? The Rays got a great deal and will continue to be set up for both the present and the future.

    Glad the Twins passed on the deal ... we don't need Shelds in our current model.

  12. #52
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    Who knows? Maybe the Royals click next season but I think they will regret this. The problem is that they just haven't been able to even get their pitching prospects to the majors to disappoint. their offensive core weren't on fire last year but they have a lot of talent in the majors (aside from Frenchy). Gordon, Butler, Hosmer, Mous, Alcides, Perez and Cain is a pretty solid core that will be around for awhile. If these hitters make progress and they find a few guys (Ervin, Davis, Duffy, Paulino) that can be solid MOR starters they could make a big jump next year. More likely this will be the defining trade that ends Moore's run as a GM similar to Bavasi's Bedard deal.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

    Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.
    It depends. If you could get Shields to sign an extention he's easily worth Arcia and Gibson. Hendriks will never be anything but roster filler at the major league level. Arcia, Gibson, & Harrison for Davis and Shields is a decent trade. Shields would easily be the Twins best Pitcher since Santana and Davis is AT WORST our 3rd best starter or a proven reliever. I think people are a little too high on Gibson. He's a solid pitcher but he's already had Tommy John and the Twins organization is probably the worst training staff in the majors so its not like he's guaranteed to come back as strong as before or without issues.

    Basically if the Twins could land Shields without giving up a Top 3 prospect (Hicks, Sano, or Buxton) then they should make that deal every day if they are condending while Shilds is under contract. The Royals are a year or two closer to contention so I think they made the right deal. This deal would only help MN if they could lock up Shields on a longer term deal. If so, I find it hard to think they shouldn't pursue this type of proven starter.

  14. #54
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    I think the corresponding trade from a Twins perspective would have been Sano (Myers), May (Odozzri), Benson (Montgomery) and Kepler (last guy).

    I'm not trying to argue KC got the better deal. But I'm not sure it's as one sided as I originally thought. If KC is right on Myers, they did ok.

    Cost of pitching is insane right now. We gave up two starting center fielders (under 8 years of team control) for one mid rotation guy and two prospects. Grienke is getting 24m/yr. Dempster is turning down 24m. Sanchez is insulted by 4/48. Nats and Reds gave up tons for Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos. Oakland turned down Myers for Anderson. Baker got 5.5 guaranteed coming off TJ surgery. Someone will give Liriano more than that.
    Well I was trying to compensate for the fact that TB got guys pretty close to the Majors, whereas Sano isn't. The point is just that it was an insane amount to give up, and the guys they got back aren't free either.

    Before the trade, the Royals had about $54.5 million committed, not counting the pre-arb guys. If they are really so set on winning, why not just sign Anibal Sanchez and Edwin Jackson? The combined cost would be maybe $10-15 million more than Shields/Davis, but they also could upgrade RF by replacing Francoeur (one of the worst players in MLB last year) with Myers, and have Odorizzi for pitching depth in AAA. They could use some non-elite prospects to get a third starter and have the makings of a real rotation, not Shields and then a bunch of garbage.

  15. #55
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    Wade Davis nothing special?? Find me a Twin within 2 years of the majors with a 11+ Ks per 9. He a very very solid major league proven arm.

  16. #56
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    The Royals played .500 ball in August and September of last year. This was done with no pitching at all. They are starting to hit...

    The acquisition of pitching by the Royals should not be discounted. I think they gave up too much... Most everyone does but the upgrade on the pitching staff will be huge if they work out.

    The Rays easily won the trade in my mind but the Royals improved for 2013 at the same time... The Twins won't like playing them next year.

  17. #57
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    I've been reading twitter and a few write ups and though the baseball guys don't like it, but I've seen scouts who say its fair. Meyers has had some injury issues, and though I'd hesitate to say any of the Royals top prospects of the past 5-7 years have been bust, but none of them have really amounted to the hype, so with this the Royals are saying hey, we are going to try to win. If they win 85 games, get some people to show up, maybe they make a trade at the dead line, and show that they are going for it. It is the right move for them.

  18. #58
    I'm glad to have Terry Ryan instead of Dayton Moore (Royals GM).
    The Royals just traded three top prospects for a reliever and a mid level starter. Will Myers is the type of prospect people HOPE that Miguel Sano might someday become. No complaints from this Twins fan. I'm happy with the trade Terry Ryan made last week with Philadelphia. What the Royals did yesterday would be like if the Twins had traded Hicks, Gibson, and Sano for Vance Worley and Trevor May. Giving up Ben Revere, that seems fine compared to the Royals move.
    The Royals trade yesterday is more similar to the time Billy Smith got swindled by the Nats in the Wilson Ramos-Matt Capps deal.
    Last edited by Section234HHHMet; 12-10-2012 at 03:07 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    me thinks the twins are between a rock and a wet spot ...
    so drop the bomb and totally rebuild,adios joe justin and ham
    Absolutely. Except for Joe. The Royals, in my opinion, just got much better. I have read alot of things that said they just got a 3-4 win player and possibly a 1-2 win player, therefore they only added 5 wins from last years team in this deal. Can the WAR stat be any dumber than it already is? I think this does wonders for your team. Shields will be a much better pitcher than they had last year. Every 5 days the team will have an even better chance to win, not to mention the bullpen will get more rest...a drickle down effect if you will. I think the Royals will be legit this year with this deal and the others yet to come (Still could sign another mid-tier free agent). We needs to blow this thing up big time. Hold on to Mornie and Hammer until the all-star break and see what you can get. A right handed and left handed powerbat should get a pretty big hall before the allstar break. The draft should bring another top-level talent into the system (probably a pitcher, but a MI wouldn't be terrible)...the team is going to lose another 100 games next year so that will also bring another top draft pick. We should be loading the system so that by 2016 WE could be like the Rays and turn our guys into more stellar prospects.

    I like the trade for both teams as the Royals will be back for the first time since George Brett was roaming the corners (Joe Mauer could be our Gerge Brett at 1st, just saying). You keep Mauer around for the duration of the contract to keep people in the seats. Also, how sneaky are those Rays. They are the piranhas. I'm sure they could have used Sheilds this year but they got back a future all-star who will behind a perrenial MVP candidate for the next 6-7 years.

    The Rays are what we should aim for. They are the smartest/luckiest team in baseball. Sure, Tim Beckam didn't work out but the majority of their moves do. I bet they wait until July to bring Myers up to get another year of service from him. The savvyness is off the charts.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section234HHHMet View Post
    I'm glad to have Terry Ryan instead of Dayton Moore (Royals GM).
    The Royals just traded three top prospects for a reliever and a mid level starter. Will Myers is the type of prospect people HOPE that Miguel Sano might someday become. No complaints from this Twins fan. I'm happy with the trade Terry Ryan made last week with Philadelphia. What the Royals did yesterday would be like if the Twins had traded Hicks, Gibson, and Sano for Vance Worley and Trevor May. Giving up Ben Revere, that seems fine compared to the Royals move.
    The Royals trade yesterday is more similar to the time Billy Smith got swindled by the Nats in the Wilson Ramos-Matt Capps deal.
    No, it wouldn't because Shields is exponentially better than Worley and May.

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