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Thread: Chance Twins open season with 75/80m payroll??

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Greinke just signed. A couple of mid-level pitchers have signed. Still lots out there and time. Why not at least wait a month to whine about what the Twins didn't do, rather than now about what they might not (or even probably won't) do.
    The sqeeky wheel gets the oil....

  2. #62
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    sorry but there is no guarrantee that myers can/will be any better than Mostakas/Hosmer have been the past 2 yrs or what Gordon/Butler etc did their first couple yrs......Shields is an absolute top of rotation innings eater (didnt say ace tho). They dealt from percieved strength (young hotshot hitter prospect types) to get what they dont have.
    I love what KC has done this offseason to get their pitching in order.
    The Royals are in a totally different place than the Twins. In three years this might be an appropriate move for the Twins but it isn't now. Even then, the deals where your hand is forced (ala Soriano a few years ago) are often the worst for an organization to pull off.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    The Twins will not carryover profit. They are still paying off their portion of the stadium, I believe. 50% of $150 million and then 50% of $200+ million.....hummmmmm did they give everyone in the front office, scouting staff and such a raise? I think not. Because they are :losers" they egt higher draft picks and have to pay more. But if you win, you all sell more tickets, concessions et al. More people watch television and such.

    They can spend. Not just on a pitcher but now an outfielder or a shortstop or someone. They have another $25+ million off the payroll next year, + $25 million more in TV revenue.

    22,000 season ticket holders. Another 5,000 game sales. Okay, 10,000 empty seats in 2013.

    Might as well trade Mauer, too.

    Be the team with the fastest decrease in attendance with a new stadium ever.

    You don't always win by spending carelessly, but the Twins supposedly have some money to spend and can spend it and not effect their bottom line, so why not do it. Get someone, something. Even futrue trade chips.

    Hell, if they are doing nothing more, then they could've spent $24 million on Grienke for six years and let him led the staff when they really become competitive in 2015-2018.
    Isint the twins paying off there share of the stadium through a tax people are paying on hotels resturants and bars in the city?

  4. #64
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Isint the twins paying off there share of the stadium through a tax people are paying on hotels resturants and bars in the city?
    Huh?

  5. #65
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    We can't just sign prospects win the extra money because there'a a cap for international signings and draft spending. However, if we use the money to squire better prospects when we trade ( Willingham for b-level prospect vs. Willingham +10mil for a-level prospect), we could use our excess money to get better prospects.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Triple-A Gernzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    The Twins will not carryover profit. They are still paying off their portion of the stadium, I believe. 50% of $150 million and then 50% of $200+ million.....hummmmmm did they give everyone in the front office, scouting staff and such a raise? I think not. Because they are :losers" they egt higher draft picks and have to pay more. But if you win, you all sell more tickets, concessions et al. More people watch television and such.

    They can spend. Not just on a pitcher but now an outfielder or a shortstop or someone. They have another $25+ million off the payroll next year, + $25 million more in TV revenue.

    22,000 season ticket holders. Another 5,000 game sales. Okay, 10,000 empty seats in 2013.

    Might as well trade Mauer, too.

    Be the team with the fastest decrease in attendance with a new stadium ever.

    You don't always win by spending carelessly, but the Twins supposedly have some money to spend and can spend it and not effect their bottom line, so why not do it. Get someone, something. Even futrue trade chips.

    Hell, if they are doing nothing more, then they could've spent $24 million on Grienke for six years and let him led the staff when they really become competitive in 2015-2018.
    Mr. Rosterman, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points. And may God have mercy on your soul.
    You sir, have just won the internet.
    And yes I also see the penguin.
    I bent my wookie...

  7. #67
    They have made 2 good trades in acquiring young pitching. But it is beyond frustrating that they clearly refuse to go after some arms thru free agency. Really, signing Marcum and Saunders to 3 year deals wouldn't kill them. They would at least have a couple major league pitchers controlled thru 2015 to go with Worley, Diamond, Gibson and Hendricks. Depending on how they pitch and how the team performs, you either keep Marcum and Saunders or you deal them to contending teams at or near the deadline. With the TV money each team will be receiving in 2014 and beyond the Twins inactivity is enough to make you grind your teeth.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopGunn#22 View Post
    They have made 2 good trades in acquiring young pitching. But it is beyond frustrating that they clearly refuse to go after some arms thru free agency. Really, signing Marcum and Saunders to 3 year deals wouldn't kill them. They would at least have a couple major league pitchers controlled thru 2015 to go with Worley, Diamond, Gibson and Hendricks. Depending on how they pitch and how the team performs, you either keep Marcum and Saunders or you deal them to contending teams at or near the deadline. With the TV money each team will be receiving in 2014 and beyond the Twins inactivity is enough to make you grind your teeth.
    The Minnesota Twins need to expand payroll and become players for upper tier free agents or commite to rebuilding,
    straddling the fence only gives you a case of blue balls,so either go get Hamilton , Sanchez and a shortstop,or trade
    Willingham,Justin and Joe and really commite to the future....

  9. #69
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    "Let's make something very clear. Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Salvador Perez and Alcides Escobar signed here long-term with the full expectation that we, as a baseball operations department, would do everything that we can to put the best team on the field every single night," Moore said. "That's what we've committed to our fans, that's what we've committed to our players, so when an opportunity comes along that you can acquire a pitcher like James Shields and Wade Davis, we have to do it."

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    It's kind of humorous how people are surprised that rebuilding teams trade veterans and are hesitant to sign aging and declining veterans to long contracts.
    It's incredible, isn't it?
    I have yet to see any real sentiment about not making the trades Ryan has made or signing guys to long term deals that may block minor league talent from coming up in 2014-2015 but how would have signing/trading for Haren to a 1 year contract and getting Blanton or McCarthy for 2 years impacted the next talent wave? Using our payroll for decent options this year instead of settling on lower tier guys like Myers and Lannan would have sent a message that even though we are setting up for the future when guys like Sano, Meyer, May, Berrios, ect.... arrive we are still trying to compete by maximizing what we have in 2013.

  11. #71
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    "Let's make something very clear. Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Salvador Perez and Alcides Escobar signed here long-term with the full expectation that we, as a baseball operations department, would do everything that we can to put the best team on the field every single night," Moore said. "That's what we've committed to our fans, that's what we've committed to our players, so when an opportunity comes along that you can acquire a pitcher like James Shields and Wade Davis, we have to do it."
    Fair enough, but what else would you expect him to say? "I took a big risk here folks, gave up a lot but I'm pretty sure it's a good move". His statement is called, rhetoric.

    This may make sense for the Royals right now, although certainly no given. I don't believe a move like this makes sense for the Twins given where they are at, in a couple of years if Gibson, Meyer, May, Sano, et al are performing as expected, sure, but not now.

  12. #72
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    I predict the Twins will have a payroll right around $80 million after signing a couple cheap free agent pitchers.

    TR's on record saying that one player earning 25% of the payroll is bad business. The Twins would need a payroll greater than $92 million to not be in that situation.

  13. #73
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    If I were Gardy I would say stick it!

  14. #74
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopGunn#22 View Post
    They have made 2 good trades in acquiring young pitching. But it is beyond frustrating that they clearly refuse to go after some arms thru free agency. Really, signing Marcum and Saunders to 3 year deals wouldn't kill them. They would at least have a couple major league pitchers controlled thru 2015 to go with Worley, Diamond, Gibson and Hendricks. Depending on how they pitch and how the team performs, you either keep Marcum and Saunders or you deal them to contending teams at or near the deadline. With the TV money each team will be receiving in 2014 and beyond the Twins inactivity is enough to make you grind your teeth.
    Signing Saunders to a three-year deal would kill ​me.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Double-A zenser's Avatar
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    I guess I was under the illusion a lot of other Twins fans were under a few years ago. I thought, because the Twins told us so, that having a revenue source from a new stadium like Target Field would allow the Twins to be competitive in the FA market. I am not saying to spend money to just spend money. Do you really think they even kicked the tires on Greinke? Me either. I have season tickets too but it is getting harder and harder to write that check.

  16. #76
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenser View Post
    I guess I was under the illusion a lot of other Twins fans were under a few years ago. I thought, because the Twins told us so, that having a revenue source from a new stadium like Target Field would allow the Twins to be competitive in the FA market. I am not saying to spend money to just spend money. Do you really think they even kicked the tires on Greinke? Me either. I have season tickets too but it is getting harder and harder to write that check.
    I don't understand the lament over the Greinke signing. It's a six year deal at $25m per and Greinke has an opt-out after the third season. Greinke is a good pitcher. He's not a great one and that kind of money and years is ridiculous.

    I'd rather have Sanchez at five years, $75m or Jackson at four years, $60m over that Greinke contract any day of the freakin' week (plus/minus $5m to the Jackson or Sanchez contracts).

    The Twins should be playing in the middle of the free agent pool, not the deep end. Those contracts almost never work out for the team that "wins" the free agent whereas there's a damned good chance the Twins would be completely screwed if they had $50m a year invested in Mauer and Greinke through 2018.

  17. #77
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    Payroll needs fluctuate over time. There is no real point in throwing away a bunch of money on a rebuilding team. But, there is a lot of value in bolstering a contender. However, the Pohlads will never say anything about investing more down the road, because they have zero intention of doing so.

    It's not even about what the Pohlads owe to the taxpayers, who handed them hundreds of millions of dollars in exchange for nothing, even though their family tried very hard to make the team disappear off the face of the Earth. I know for sure they couldn't care less about that. But it's actually bad business not to invest in a contending team, because a relatively small investment can pay huge dividends if the team makes the playoffs (particularly if it advances).

  18. #78
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenser View Post
    I guess I was under the illusion a lot of other Twins fans were under a few years ago. I thought, because the Twins told us so, that having a revenue source from a new stadium like Target Field would allow the Twins to be competitive in the FA market. I am not saying to spend money to just spend money. Do you really think they even kicked the tires on Greinke? Me either. I have season tickets too but it is getting harder and harder to write that check.
    I don't understand the lament over the Greinke signing. It's a six year deal at $25m per and Greinke has an opt-out after the third season. Greinke is a good pitcher. He's not a great one and that kind of money and years is ridiculous.
    This, just this.

  19. #79
    Senior Member Double-A zenser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenser View Post
    I guess I was under the illusion a lot of other Twins fans were under a few years ago. I thought, because the Twins told us so, that having a revenue source from a new stadium like Target Field would allow the Twins to be competitive in the FA market. I am not saying to spend money to just spend money. Do you really think they even kicked the tires on Greinke? Me either. I have season tickets too but it is getting harder and harder to write that check.
    I don't understand the lament over the Greinke signing. It's a six year deal at $25m per and Greinke has an opt-out after the third season. Greinke is a good pitcher. He's not a great one and that kind of money and years is ridiculous.

    I'd rather have Sanchez at five years, $75m or Jackson at four years, $60m over that Greinke contract any day of the freakin' week (plus/minus $5m to the Jackson or Sanchez contracts).

    The Twins should be playing in the middle of the free agent pool, not the deep end. Those contracts almost never work out for the team that "wins" the free agent whereas there's a damned good chance the Twins would be completely screwed if they had $50m a year invested in Mauer and Greinke through 2018.
    I am not saying the Greinke deal was a good one. I don't think Sanchez at 15 million a season is a great deal either for a guy with a mid 3 era that pitched half his games in a pitchers park in the NL, but given how free agency is going it will take all of 15 million a season for Sanchez. I am just tired of having the retread free agents be the only one's that we can afford. I don't have the link but ESPN had a story a few days ago where the average salary was something like 3 to 5 million. I don't remember the exact figure. If we aren't willing to spend over what the average salary is, we definitely aren't going to improve via free agency.

  20. #80
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenser View Post
    I am not saying the Greinke deal was a good one. I don't think Sanchez at 15 million a season is a great deal either for a guy with a mid 3 era that pitched half his games in a pitchers park in the NL, but given how free agency is going it will take all of 15 million a season for Sanchez. I am just tired of having the retread free agents be the only one's that we can afford. I don't have the link but ESPN had a story a few days ago where the average salary was something like 3 to 5 million. I don't remember the exact figure. If we aren't willing to spend over what the average salary is, we definitely aren't going to improve via free agency.
    And I agree with you. I just don't think Greinke would have been a good idea. The Twins should be targeting mid-tier guys, not bidding against the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs of the world.

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