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Thread: Article: Winter Meetings: Time For Terry Ryan to Step Up.

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    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Article: Winter Meetings: Time For Terry Ryan to Step Up.

    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

  2. #2
    Ive said it before.....MN/Terry Ryan are very good at making an offer that is just not good enough to get a player but appear they are interested....which they never were at those prices.
    Until they change this perception, only the sheep will actually believe that they will do something. They hit some nice cheap deals last winter, but thats all they are interested in.
    Even now, Ryan isnt gonna get into a bidding war for even a Brett Myers type. Even more-so than this, Im frustrated by the middle infield & the refusal to address it.

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    Faced with having to top the 4 year $58 million contract that Beuhrle received should have ended their interest in him. I would stay far away from a bidding war for Brett Myers.
    But I definitely agree with you on the middle infield. That can be addressed reasonably and I don't see the Twins even rumored for free agents at those positions. I think our pitching would do better if they had major league shortstops behind them. Our fielding at 3rd base has been poor also and now we are putting Parmelee in the out field and subtracting Span. Picking up some good defensive players wouldn't break the budget and would help the entire pitching staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Ive said it before.....MN/Terry Ryan are very good at making an offer that is just not good enough to get a player but appear they are interested....which they never were at those prices.
    Until they change this perception, only the sheep will actually believe that they will do something. They hit some nice cheap deals last winter, but thats all they are interested in.
    Even now, Ryan isnt gonna get into a bidding war for even a Brett Myers type. Even more-so than this, Im frustrated by the middle infield & the refusal to address it.


    He did address the MI-

    Buh-bye- Nishi, Lexi....

    Hello- Florimon, Escobar and Field (well, Field for 15 minutes, anyway)

    There. Fixed. Next?

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    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    There are 30 million ways Ryan could win a bidding war for pitching and MI help. How many other GMs have that much payroll room before they even hit the prior year's Opening Day payroll? I have no issue with the Span/Meyer trade, but with $30 million in his pocket, there's no excuse at all for Ryan not being able to address the present AND the future needs of his ballclub.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

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    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Bad teams often have to over pay for decent free agents. After all who wants to play for a bad team? All things being equal if the Jackson or Marcum types have an offer from the Twins and a contender which would you take?

    It's a lot more likely to be guys coming off poor years looking to rebuild some value, imo.

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    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Bad teams often have to over pay for decent free agents. After all who wants to play for a bad team? All things being equal if the Jackson or Marcum types have an offer from the Twins and a contender which would you take?

    It's a lot more likely to be guys coming off poor years looking to rebuild some value, imo.
    Having to overpay is the price this front office pays for allowing the team to fall to the depths it has. Starting pitching was a huge need last offseason, too, and they did nothing about it. Congratulations, you shaved $15 million off your 2011 payroll by not signing real pitching last year. Now you get to overpay to get similar pitching because you have to convince those pitchers that you're serious about contending. It's the price you pay for being stupid and cheap last year.

    Those pitchers also know that, if the Twins aren't competitive, there's a pretty good chance they get traded to a contender at mid-season anyway. Some might argue you've got a better chance of being in the playoffs by signing with a bad team now than if you sign with a borderline competitive team in the first place.
    Last edited by Jim Crikket; 12-03-2012 at 09:10 AM.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

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    The key to THIS year is that Ryan has no excuses. And, unlike in your time machine examples, Jim, THIS year Ryan (not media reports, but Ryan) has given us a very clear assurances that he won't be constrained by budgets.

    My theory is that last year Ryan failed to liberate himself to his own old mentality, which was necessary in the past, of value-shopping and avoiding bidding wars. He also made a very poor bet that Liriano, Baker, Pavano, Blackburn, and Marquis/Hendriks/whomever was going to be enough.

    So, those of us who hold out dim hope aren't doing so blindly. I for one base my hope on Ryan's own words, not media speculation, and on the fact that there are more options available to solve fewer problems this year than last.

    My expectations aren't ridiculous: two pitchers for 2013, through FA or trade, better than #3-4 starter Diamond. A 2013 team that wins close to half its games (say, 77 wins), making them watchable. A 2014 team of exciting first and second year players, on the rise, fun to watch, with more talent on the cusp.

    If Ryan instead gives me Liriano and Myers and calls it a day, I'll join in the criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Ive said it before.....MN/Terry Ryan are very good at making an offer that is just not good enough to get a player but appear they are interested....which they never were at those prices.
    Until they change this perception, only the sheep will actually believe that they will do something. They hit some nice cheap deals last winter, but thats all they are interested in.
    Even now, Ryan isnt gonna get into a bidding war for even a Brett Myers type. Even more-so than this, Im frustrated by the middle infield & the refusal to address it.
    Nice post

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    At least the new ballpark allows for increased payroll.

  11. #11
    "I'll believe it when I see it" is generally a good approach to any expected Twins FA activity, but the situation entering 2013 is notably worse than entering 2012. Nobody expected Baker and Pavano would be able to offer virtually nothing all year. Liriano was so awful early that he got yanked from the worst rotation in baseball. Guys who normally never would've sniffed the majors (like Walters and Devries) were suddenly rotation regulars. And Scott Diamond became our "ace".

    This year, we know all those problems going in. There is no possible formula whereby the Twins could have an effective starting rotation as they are currently constituted.

    Therefore, I actually do have some level of confidence that we will sign pitchers, though they may be low budget signings, and it may not happen at the Winter Meetings.

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    I wonder how TR felt after the offseason going into spring training last year? Did he feel like he'd done his job, or like he'd come up short?

    I ask because just because "we've heard it before" doesn't mean it'll be the same this year. I'm hoping TR himself learned from last year that you can't just "be in the mix" for a handful of guys and hope one or two shake out; you really do have to go after a few of them.

    Probably too optimistic on my part, but I'd hope the difference between last year and this year is that last year just happened and taught a few lessons.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    It's only Day 1 of the Winter Meetings, but when you sort through all of the rumors, there's virtually no mention of the Twins doing anything more than "checking in" on the top available free agent pitchers. Joe Blanton is the best that the Twins have been seriously connected to, so far. Beyond that, it's bottom-dwellers, so far. Not an encouraging first day.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

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    I expect upper tier players to see salarys with up to and more of 25% by the time spring training starts in 2014,with that in mind the twins should be looking for players they need this year rather then waiting till next.

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    Ubaldo Jiminez was terrible in 2012, but I believe he could still be a helpful #3 or #4 for Twins in 2013 and at a low cost. He has the tools and could flourish in the pitcher friendly Target Field. I would trade for him as Cleveland is looking to unload players. If our pithing coach can helpJiminez, what a find? Worth the $5 million or so investment Cleveland picked up his option for. Thoughts?????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    Ubaldo Jiminez was terrible in 2012, but I believe he could still be a helpful #3 or #4 for Twins in 2013 and at a low cost. He has the tools and could flourish in the pitcher friendly Target Field. I would trade for him as Cleveland is looking to unload players. If our pithing coach can helpJiminez, what a find? Worth the $5 million or so investment Cleveland picked up his option for. Thoughts?????????
    10th best hitter's park in baseball last year.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    Ubaldo Jiminez was terrible in 2012, but I believe he could still be a helpful #3 or #4 for Twins in 2013 and at a low cost. He has the tools and could flourish in the pitcher friendly Target Field. I would trade for him as Cleveland is looking to unload players. If our pithing coach can helpJiminez, what a find? Worth the $5 million or so investment Cleveland picked up his option for. Thoughts?????????
    Here's the problem... the Twins HAVE a #3 starter in Scott Diamond and they have a crapload of potential #4-#5 starters to audition in February and March. They don't need another "#3 or #4". They need at least a couple of guys BETTER THAN Scott Diamond and Terry Ryan knows it. We know he knows it because he's been saying it to anyone with a microphone for the past 2 months.

    Yet the only reports that have the Twins showing real interest are about other bottom of the rotation pitchers. Terry Ryan has at least $25 million dollars in his pocket and if he comes away from Nashville with nothing but low end pitching to show for it because he got spooked by the dollars that agents for top pitchers were asking for, fans have every right to stay away from Target Field en masse this summer.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    The key to THIS year is that Ryan has no excuses. And, unlike in your time machine examples, Jim, THIS year Ryan (not media reports, but Ryan) has given us a very clear assurances that he won't be constrained by budgets.

    My theory is that last year Ryan failed to liberate himself to his own old mentality, which was necessary in the past, of value-shopping and avoiding bidding wars. He also made a very poor bet that Liriano, Baker, Pavano, Blackburn, and Marquis/Hendriks/whomever was going to be enough.

    So, those of us who hold out dim hope aren't doing so blindly. I for one base my hope on Ryan's own words, not media speculation, and on the fact that there are more options available to solve fewer problems this year than last.

    My expectations aren't ridiculous: two pitchers for 2013, through FA or trade, better than #3-4 starter Diamond. A 2013 team that wins close to half its games (say, 77 wins), making them watchable. A 2014 team of exciting first and second year players, on the rise, fun to watch, with more talent on the cusp.

    If Ryan instead gives me Liriano and Myers and calls it a day, I'll join in the criticism.
    Promises, promises. With the names currently being bandied about as his FA pitching targets, he's already proven ridiculous and broken your heart and you don't even know it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Bad teams often have to over pay for decent free agents. After all who wants to play for a bad team? All things being equal if the Jackson or Marcum types have an offer from the Twins and a contender which would you take?

    It's a lot more likely to be guys coming off poor years looking to rebuild some value, imo.
    You haven't read the official TD handbook, I posted as much as you have proffered, recently. The apparent official rule on Free Agents at Twins Daily is 95% of the time or better, the FA ALWAYS chooses the biggest contract; unfortuanately, based on statements and actions in the offseason, I'm not holding my breath that Ryan is willing to overpay enough to make it worth it to any top tier or top-of-the-mid-tier SPs to come to the Twins, especially now with the downgrade on defense.

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