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Thread: Article: Twins trade Denard Span for Nationals' 2011 first round pick

  1. #221
    Longtime reader ... first time poster.

    When I first read about the trade, I shook my head and figured here we go again. The Twins trade their best tradeable asset for one minor leaguer. After I started reading about, Meyer, I changed my mind.

    I think Ryan's quote in the strib article sums it all up:
    "These guys are hard to get, and if you are going to get them, it's going to be in the low-to-mid minors. Once they get up to Double A or Triple A, they are almost impossible to get." (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/181434491.html)

    We all knew we weren't going to get an ace or number 2 for Span in the majors, AAA, or AA. The best we could hope for might be a number 4. TR had to go to high A to get the best pitcher he could for Span.

    I'm glad we didn't use Span and other prospects to get Shields. Why waste Span and currency (prospects such as Rozario, Hicks, etc.) in our minor league system for 2 years of Shields before he commands top dollar to stay and further hurt payroll? Rolling the dice on Meyer is the way to go. No guarantees he'll be good, but the Twins at least gave themselves a chance at a strong pitcher by bringing him in.

    I'd rather have taken Meyer (I'll say "B" level prospect) then hope for two C prospects or a C and a few D prospects in return for Span. The Twins probably could have taken a quantity of lesser prospects, but they sacrificed more pieces coming back for quality. They put all their Span eggs in one basket for Meyer, but he has the best chance at producing vs. any other number of lesser prospects the Nats may have agreed to send.

    I think it's silly fans (especially on the strib) are ripping the Twins for the move (the early replies of what I read). They don't understand baseball and how valuable young pitching is. You don't just buy young pitchers for 3 million like you do NBA draft picks. You need to either hit them right on the draft or trade impact players away to get the prospects. Span brought us the best pitcher he could. I'm satisfied based on Meyer's potential alone. Let's hope he's blessed enough to avoid Tommy John and cash in for a long MLB career with the Twins!

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    More people viewed this page than bought lottery tickets last night...fact based analysis.
    Half of the views are from Dave and joking going back and forth.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm wondering if people upset with the trade are more upset with the return or how far away the return seems? Had the Twins gotten Tijuan Walker, who is far away but a top ten prospect, would some of you folks still be disappointed? Serious question not trying to provoke.
    Yes they would have. Based on what they complain about they appear to have expected as sure thing front end starter for Span.

  4. #224
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    Bark's L thanks for your well wishes. Nothin would be better than to see the Twins win. Twins winning is happiness.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcphitman View Post
    Longtime reader ... first time poster.

    When I first read about the trade, I shook my head and figured here we go again. The Twins trade their best tradeable asset for one minor leaguer. After I started reading about, Meyer, I changed my mind.

    I think Ryan's quote in the strib article sums it all up:
    "These guys are hard to get, and if you are going to get them, it's going to be in the low-to-mid minors. Once they get up to Double A or Triple A, they are almost impossible to get." (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/181434491.html)

    We all knew we weren't going to get an ace or number 2 for Span in the majors, AAA, or AA. The best we could hope for might be a number 4. TR had to go to high A to get the best pitcher he could for Span.

    I'm glad we didn't use Span and other prospects to get Shields. Why waste Span and currency (prospects such as Rozario, Hicks, etc.) in our minor league system for 2 years of Shields before he commands top dollar to stay and further hurt payroll? Rolling the dice on Meyer is the way to go. No guarantees he'll be good, but the Twins at least gave themselves a chance at a strong pitcher by bringing him in.

    I'd rather have taken Meyer (I'll say "B" level prospect) then hope for two C prospects or a C and a few D prospects in return for Span. The Twins probably could have taken a quantity of lesser prospects, but they sacrificed more pieces coming back for quality. They put all their Span eggs in one basket for Meyer, but he has the best chance at producing vs. any other number of lesser prospects the Nats may have agreed to send.

    I think it's silly fans (especially on the strib) are ripping the Twins for the move (the early replies of what I read). They don't understand baseball and how valuable young pitching is. You don't just buy young pitchers for 3 million like you do NBA draft picks. You need to either hit them right on the draft or trade impact players away to get the prospects. Span brought us the best pitcher he could. I'm satisfied based on Meyer's potential alone. Let's hope he's blessed enough to avoid Tommy John and cash in for a long MLB career with the Twins!
    Excellent first post. Hopefully first of many.

    I concur in going for gold over tin. But I still wish they could have poked around to get a better deal from favorable trading parteners like Cincy, Tampa or Texas. The Twins got fleeced once by the Nats already and they are primed to essentially "stand pat" and tinker with their roster as they prepare for a likely World Series run in 2013. It seems like the Twins might have been able to coax another piece or two currently blocked at the Major League level.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm wondering if people upset with the trade are more upset with the return or how far away the return seems? Had the Twins gotten Tijuan Walker, who is far away but a top ten prospect, would some of you folks still be disappointed? Serious question not trying to provoke.
    Yes they would have. Based on what they complain about they appear to have expected as sure thing front end starter for Span.
    After being teased in the media about going after guys like Shields and Cingrani, can you see why expectations had to be adjusted?

  7. #227
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    Late to the party here tonight, but I'll chime in that this is the kind of trade I was hoping for - a high ceiling pitcher in exchange for an average MLB-proven CFer. I was kind of hoping for a second prospect (maybe in exchange for a throw-in by the Twins), but this is OK. As always, I have no fundamental insight into prospects so as armchair GM I have to trust "my" scouts on the choice of the pitcher to trade for.

    The loss of Span frees up a little money that can be spent (with money already earmarked) on pitching to keep 2013-14 from being a disaster that would harm cashflow for when they are ready to compete again in 2015 or so. Should be an interesting winter, with this as the opening salvo.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Late to the party here tonight, but I'll chime in that this is the kind of trade I was hoping for - a high ceiling pitcher in exchange for an average MLB-proven CFer. I was kind of hoping for a second prospect (maybe in exchange for a throw-in by the Twins), but this is OK. As always, I have no fundamental insight into prospects so as armchair GM I have to trust "my" scouts on the choice of the pitcher to trade for.

    The loss of Span frees up a little money that can be spent (with money already earmarked) on pitching to keep 2013-14 from being a disaster that would harm cashflow for when they are ready to compete again in 2015 or so. Should be an interesting winter, with this as the opening salvo.
    Salvo #2 hot off the wires at MLBTradeRumors:

    In an interview with 1500 ESPN Twin Cities radio (via Phil Mackey of 1500 ESPN), Twins assistant GM Rob Antony said his team will likely pursue free agents over trades at the Winter Meetings. "We probably don't have a lot of pieces that we do have to trade for starting pitching [with Denard Span now gone]," Antony said. "We'll probably be a little more aggressive and spend our time at the winter meetings talking to agents rather than clubs."


    This could get interesting............................or it could mean Joe Saunders and that other Myers guy is their definition of "a little more agressive".

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm wondering if people upset with the trade are more upset with the return or how far away the return seems? Had the Twins gotten Tijuan Walker, who is far away but a top ten prospect, would some of you folks still be disappointed? Serious question not trying to provoke.
    Yes they would have. Based on what they complain about they appear to have expected as sure thing front end starter for Span.
    After being teased in the media about going after guys like Shields and Cingrani, can you see why expectations had to be adjusted?
    Media claims are about as close to reality as Thyrloss's last scoop. If Shields is traded it is going to net Tampa more than anything the Twins would offer. I am not sure what to make of the Reds talk. Shortstops seem harder to find than outfielders so it would have taken more than Span to swing that.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    [

    Salvo #2 hot off the wires at MLBTradeRumors:


    This could get interesting............................or it could mean Joe Saunders and that other Myers guy is their definition of "a little more agressive".
    It could mean Marcum and Sanchez. That would be aggressive.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm wondering if people upset with the trade are more upset with the return or how far away the return seems? Had the Twins gotten Tijuan Walker, who is far away but a top ten prospect, would some of you folks still be disappointed? Serious question not trying to provoke.
    Yes they would have. Based on what they complain about they appear to have expected as sure thing front end starter for Span.
    After being teased in the media about going after guys like Shields and Cingrani, can you see why expectations had to be adjusted?
    Media claims are about as close to reality as Thyrloss's last scoop. If Shields is traded it is going to net Tampa more than anything the Twins would offer. I am not sure what to make of the Reds talk. Shortstops seem harder to find than outfielders so it would have taken more than Span to swing that.
    I wasn't in denial that it would have taken a package deal to get it done. As Twins fans all we have are the games of chicken and poker during the Hot Stove season, expectations, bluffs and ultimate realities have to get recalibrated here, that's all.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    [

    Salvo #2 hot off the wires at MLBTradeRumors:


    This could get interesting............................or it could mean Joe Saunders and that other Myers guy is their definition of "a little more agressive".
    It could mean Marcum and Sanchez. That would be aggressive.
    Yes, that would be agressive and would definitely float a lot of boats in Twinsland, unfortunately St Antony threw in that quaint qualifier, 'a little more'

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm wondering if people upset with the trade are more upset with the return or how far away the return seems? Had the Twins gotten Tijuan Walker, who is far away but a top ten prospect, would some of you folks still be disappointed? Serious question not trying to provoke.
    Yes they would have. Based on what they complain about they appear to have expected as sure thing front end starter for Span.
    After being teased in the media about going after guys like Shields and Cingrani, can you see why expectations had to be adjusted?
    Media claims are about as close to reality as Thyrloss's last scoop. If Shields is traded it is going to net Tampa more than anything the Twins would offer. I am not sure what to make of the Reds talk. Shortstops seem harder to find than outfielders so it would have taken more than Span to swing that.
    Are you thinking of Gregorious? Cingrani is the lights-out AA LHP who is for now at least, temporaily blocked from the majors by Chapman moving over from closer to the rotation.

  14. #234
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    The Twins are devoid of pitching throughout the organization. One pitcher just isn't going to make enough of a difference in the long run. Oakland returned to contention after years of stockpiling good young arms.

    Now, it may well be that this is the best return the Twins would ever get for Span, though it certainly seems light. But even if it is the best possible deal, it just highlights the dire straits the organization is in. They don't have the assets to trade their way out of it, nor the willingness to acquire quality free agent starters.

  15. #235
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    Well, well, well, they finally did it. What this means, clearly, is that the team doesn't care about 2013 or 2014 and is waiting until 2015 when the top 6-10 prospects are either going to be rookies or second-year players. SOOOO . . . I would definitely want this to be blow-up central with AT LEAST Morneau dealt (Boston???) as well, if not Willingham and others. I think the trade is ok right now, but 2013 is going to be REALLY bad.

  16. #236
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    Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com hears that the Rockies' asking price for Dexter Fowler is "sky high" and the outfielder is unlikely to be traded.

    Crasnick also notes that potentially interested teams are concerned about Fowler's career splits, as he boasts an .882 OPS at Coors Field in his career but a .698 mark on the road. It's still early in the offseason, so things could change once more center field dominoes fall, but it appears that Fowler will probably stay put.


    Source: Jerry Crasnick on Twitter Would any other mlb team trade there starting cf & lead off hitter away like the Twins did?

  17. #237
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    Meyer is going to be the real deal, so that is not at all coloring my trepidation here. I just don't like the idea of giving up on the next two years (UNLESS a complete youth movement is in store, because that would be very interesting to watch--in the next two years, Parmelee, Hicks, Arcia, Herrmann, and Benson add interest).

    Anyway, Meyer was a ridiculous beast in HS, striking out more than 2 an inning his senior year. I am definitely excited about his future and he is clearly the best pitching prospect in the system. With a healthy Gibson and a quick-moving Berrios, the Twins could have a remarkable 1-2-3 by 2015.

  18. #238
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    In the meantime, sign Marcum and Sanchez and go balls to the wall. Damn it.

  19. #239
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    By the way, I wouldn't be opposed to a trade for another Indiana Mr. Baseball in Clayton Richard from the Padres. Hermsen, Swarzak, and Morales would likely bring that about. Or some other trade configuration.

  20. #240
    Haven't read through the last eighty or so comments, but I just saw this tidbit out there on the interwebz:

    Meyer is a Boras client.

    That should tell us all we need to know about how horribly the Twins will handle Meyer and his contract status each year. Meyer will never sign a team-friendly contract, and the Twins will likely shop him too late. Oh, well. The initial excitement about this just wore off. Let's hope he provides a positive contribution his first few years.

    On the other hand, it will maybe keep the Twins from handing out a Blackburn/Mays/Baker contract when they don't have to.

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