Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60

Thread: Reds SS Zack Cozart for... Ben Revere?

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
    Posts
    1,235
    Like
    8
    Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    What do you guys see in Gregorius that I don't? I see a guy whose sole statistical benefit is that he's young. He isn't fast. He doesn't have any power. He's not adept at getting on base. I think I'd rather have Brian Dozier than Gregorius - at least Dozier showed in the minors he can get on base.

    What am I missing?

    I'm not looking at Cozart as a star, but as a solid player for the next four years. Think Jason Bartlett but without the plate discipline, with more power and a more consistent glove.
    Cozart cannot draw walks and that's a very important part of a batter. Didi is 22 and not an old guy like Dozier. His glove REALLY worries me though. Revere for Gregorius as a trade foundation to work from could really be beneficial for the Twins. This is a very good and creative way to get a potential good short on the cheap that the Twins should definitely look into! Although, I'm not sold on either of the shortstops so good scouting is completely necessary and I wouldn't mind if the Twins didn't finish a deal.
    Last edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse; 11-09-2012 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    784
    Like
    14
    Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Would do it if it is Revere, need defensive SS who might hit a bit. Would not preclude trading Span for pitching. Like the idea, Twins need to do something. Could start Hicks or Benson in CF if Span is traded for pitching.
    I also have been lobbing for Stephen Drew. Would be a better option, but depend on price.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    301
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Didn't the Twins just trade for a no hit shortstop a few months ago?

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
    Posts
    2,753
    Like
    634
    Liked 380 Times in 212 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Gregorius bats lefthanded, that's one thing going for him.

    But the more I think about it, the less I like trading any of our outfielders for SS's of this caliber. We have Carroll for 1-2 years still. Dozier had such a horrible year year at the MLB and MilB level, it looks suspiciously like it was a one-off. Parmelee's year looks suspiciously like a one-off. Worst thing would be to trade one of our 3-4 win outfielders, bring in a marginal upgrade at SS, and then find out that Dozier is tearing it up at AAA while Parmelee is stinking it up getting everyday at bats with the Twins.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    8,671
    Like
    4,726
    Liked 2,200 Times in 1,242 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    A trade like this with the Reds doesn't make sense to me. Zach Cozart is the starting SS with the Reds. Didi isn't anything yet but is the only SS depth they have. Hamilton has been working towards a CF gig.

    Why would the Reds move a SS? That seems foolish to me.

    Personally I'd rather see Denard or Ben traded for Pitching and I don't have much interest in questionable infielders... We have questionable infielders already.

    We don't have a ton of trade chips. I sure hope we focus on pitching with the trade chips we have.

    Our SS situation is not good... Our Starting pitching is ten miles below our SS situation.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    A trade like this with the Reds doesn't make sense to me. Zach Cozart is the starting SS with the Reds. Didi isn't anything yet but is the only SS depth they have. Hamilton has been working towards a CF gig.

    Why would the Reds move a SS? That seems foolish to me.

    Personally I'd rather see Denard or Ben traded for Pitching and I don't have much interest in questionable infielders... We have questionable infielders already.

    We don't have a ton of trade chips. I sure hope we focus on pitching with the trade chips we have.

    Our SS situation is not good... Our Starting pitching is ten miles below our SS situation.
    You have a good perspective on the Reds SS dilemma. Given the Twins CF depth I think a Span/Revere for Cozart/Gregorious deal would be to the Twins benefit. Cozart has speed, power, and was in line for the Gold Glove this season. He's a solid SS that many MLB teams would like to have starting for them. Gregorious has speed (although not a great base stealer at this point), great defense and arm, and projects to be a good contact hitter and is starting to show power that most scouts have always said is there - plus he's 22 yrs. old and hits left-handed. The problem with a deal from the Reds standpoint, however, is they may not be comfortable yet deciding which player will be their SS of the future. They likely feel that Gregorious needs another year (or at least half a season) at AAA, and they have no option other than Cozart for 2013.
    Last edited by rgslone; 11-11-2012 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #27
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    What do you guys see in Gregorius that I don't? I see a guy whose sole statistical benefit is that he's young. He isn't fast. He doesn't have any power. He's not adept at getting on base. I think I'd rather have Brian Dozier than Gregorius - at least Dozier showed in the minors he can get on base.

    What am I missing?

    I'm not looking at Cozart as a star, but as a solid player for the next four years. Think Jason Bartlett but without the plate discipline, with more power and a more consistent glove.
    geez by signing izturis you could have had as good and not traded anyone

  8. #28
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    Didn't the Twins just trade for a no hit shortstop a few months ago?
    and also picked one up on waivers from baltimore

  9. #29
    I agree with Riverbrain. If you're going to deal Span/Revere/Willingham/Morneau etc...the Twins simply must get pitching back in return. As Gibson and J.O. Berrios or Liam Hendricks develop along with the other arms we would acquire in a trade the Twins could find themselves able to trade pitching to fill other holes in 3 years or so. The Twins should be able to compete next year. The fan base will demand it. If we stink it up next year again, Gardy and Andy will be gone. The idea of Stephen Drew for the "right price" is interesting. Bonnes or Seth should define what the "right price" is.

  10. #30
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
    Posts
    5,007
    Like
    4,309
    Liked 696 Times in 365 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by TopGunn#22 View Post
    I agree with Riverbrain. If you're going to deal Span/Revere/Willingham/Morneau etc...the Twins simply must get pitching back in return. As Gibson and J.O. Berrios or Liam Hendricks develop along with the other arms we would acquire in a trade the Twins could find themselves able to trade pitching to fill other holes in 3 years or so. The Twins should be able to compete next year. The fan base will demand it. If we stink it up next year again, Gardy and Andy will be gone. The idea of Stephen Drew for the "right price" is interesting. Bonnes or Seth should define what the "right price" is.
    I agree. The biggest need by far is pitching. Any trades should focus on that.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,893
    Like
    75
    Liked 357 Times in 179 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TopGunn#22 View Post
    I agree with Riverbrain. If you're going to deal Span/Revere/Willingham/Morneau etc...the Twins simply must get pitching back in return. As Gibson and J.O. Berrios or Liam Hendricks develop along with the other arms we would acquire in a trade the Twins could find themselves able to trade pitching to fill other holes in 3 years or so. The Twins should be able to compete next year. The fan base will demand it. If we stink it up next year again, Gardy and Andy will be gone. The idea of Stephen Drew for the "right price" is interesting. Bonnes or Seth should define what the "right price" is.
    I agree. The biggest need by far is pitching. Any trades should focus on that.
    That's a goodway to not maximize value then. If a team is going to offer you either a:

    B+ Prospect who plays middle INF, or a C+/B- prospect who is a pitcher the Twins would be quite foolish to take the pitcher just because "there is a greater need"

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,641
    Like
    9
    Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    [

    That's a goodway to not maximize value then. If a team is going to offer you either a:

    B+ Prospect who plays middle INF, or a C+/B- prospect who is a pitcher the Twins would be quite foolish to take the pitcher just because "there is a greater need"
    If you do not have enough B- pitching prospect available to fill your needs then you have to trade for what is scarcer. You can always pick up another MI, for younger prospects. You might not always find a pitching rich team.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    576
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    [

    That's a goodway to not maximize value then. If a team is going to offer you either a:

    B+ Prospect who plays middle INF, or a C+/B- prospect who is a pitcher the Twins would be quite foolish to take the pitcher just because "there is a greater need"
    If you do not have enough B- pitching prospect available to fill your needs then you have to trade for what is scarcer. You can always pick up another MI, for younger prospects. You might not always find a pitching rich team.

    That's not the most efficient method of doing things though. It's like drafting a pitcher for the sake of needing pitchers instead of drafting best player available. If you always draft to need and not to talent available, you are making your overall system weaker in the process.

  14. #34
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,619
    Like
    1,117
    Liked 532 Times in 352 Posts
    And if you never draft pitchers, how does that work out, given that you need 12 at a time?

    They have one starting pitcher on their roster right now. One. When they deal, they need to get pitching, assuming they do jot sign three free agents that can start.

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,641
    Like
    9
    Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    [

    That's not the most efficient method of doing things though. It's like drafting a pitcher for the sake of needing pitchers instead of drafting best player available. If you always draft to need and not to talent available, you are making your overall system weaker in the process.
    Like after the first few players are drafted there is a discernible difference between grouped players.

    It would take greater value to get a b+ pitcher than a b+ MI. The shortstop signed by Toronto was signed for as much money as Marquis got last year. The greater efficiency is had by drafting well. When you have not, you have to be creative.

    I really do not think Span would be traded for a C+ pitcher. Cole DeVries has made himself a C+ pitcher. The prospects mentioned for Span rated much higher.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,893
    Like
    75
    Liked 357 Times in 179 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    [

    That's not the most efficient method of doing things though. It's like drafting a pitcher for the sake of needing pitchers instead of drafting best player available. If you always draft to need and not to talent available, you are making your overall system weaker in the process.
    Like after the first few players are drafted there is a discernible difference between grouped players.

    It would take greater value to get a b+ pitcher than a b+ MI. The shortstop signed by Toronto was signed for as much money as Marquis got last year. The greater efficiency is had by drafting well. When you have not, you have to be creative.

    I really do not think Span would be traded for a C+ pitcher. Cole DeVries has made himself a C+ pitcher. The prospects mentioned for Span rated much higher.
    DeVries is not a C+ pitcher, at best DeVries is replacement level.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    487
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Siehbiscuit View Post
    The Red's rotation is pretty deep and they continue to flirt with moving Aroldis Chapman back to the rotation. Would a Span for CHapman swap be a good option for both?
    It would be an awesome option for the Twins, but the Reds wouldnt do it straight up. Chapman is too good. Prob take some top twins prospects and Span to get anywhere near a deal fro Aroldis

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,641
    Like
    9
    Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
    [QUOTE=SpiritofVodkaDave;62425]
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    [

    That's not the most efficient method of doing things though. It's like drafting a pitcher for the sake of needing pitchers instead of drafting best player available. If you always draft to need and not to talent available, you are making your overall system weaker in the process.
    Like after the first few players are drafted there is a discernible difference between grouped players.

    It would take greater value to get a b+ pitcher than a b+ MI. The shortstop signed by Toronto was signed for as much money as Marquis got last year. The greater efficiency is had by drafting well. When you have not, you have to be creative.

    I really do not think Span would be traded for a C+ pitcher. Cole DeVries has made himself a C+ pitcher. The prospects mentioned for Span rated much higher.
    DeVries is not a C+ pitcher, at best DeVries is replacement level.[/QUOTE ]
    Sickles definition of a C prospect is one with a question mark or three. At the higher levels that would fit DeVries. 7 of his 16 starts qualified as quality starts.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,531
    Like
    60
    Liked 337 Times in 214 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    [

    That's a goodway to not maximize value then. If a team is going to offer you either a:

    B+ Prospect who plays middle INF, or a C+/B- prospect who is a pitcher the Twins would be quite foolish to take the pitcher just because "there is a greater need"
    If you do not have enough B- pitching prospect available to fill your needs then you have to trade for what is scarcer. You can always pick up another MI, for younger prospects. You might not always find a pitching rich team.

    That's not the most efficient method of doing things though. It's like drafting a pitcher for the sake of needing pitchers instead of drafting best player available. If you always draft to need and not to talent available, you are making your overall system weaker in the process.
    Except the Twins GM has proven time and time again that he is afraid to sign free agent pitchers to multi-year deals. Therefore, the only way to get a controlable pitcher is to trade for one. Ryan is not afraid to sign offensive free agent vets.

    Besides, it's not like the teams we are talking about are talent rich in offense, the Braves, Reds, Rays and Mariners have much better pitching options to deal than they do on offense. Anyone who thinks there is more value in future utility player Didi Gregarius than in Tony Cingrani, Daniel Corcino or Robert Stephenson is crazy. Trade for cheap young promising pitching and then you can afford to overpay a little to make sure you get your veteran middle infielder. Otherwise your trading for an a uninspriring guy like Gregorius and end up paying top dollar for short term uninspiring starters.

    I'd rather rather have a Cingrani or Mike Minor and pay Stephen Drew or Jeff Keppinger on the open market, then end up with Gregorius or Tyler Pastronicky and have to settle for Joe Saunders or Joe Blanton.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 11-12-2012 at 03:14 PM.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    576
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
    All I am saying is it isnt a good way to run a team to draft and trade for players of lesser talent because they fill a more pressing need.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.