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Thread: Span at the top of the Braves list

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

    I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

    Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.
    The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

    If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

    I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

    Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.
    The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

    If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.
    Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.
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  3. #23
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.
    Well Revere's end to the season was pretty alarming. I would move Willingham and Span this offseason, but I'm not pretending they are star players or going to create a bidding war.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.
    Span is a very good CF and leadoff man who is on a pretty team friendly contract. Revere is a slap hitting, noodle arm (albeit great range) who projects to be a PR and a 4th OF.

    The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power)

    And I actually am one of the Revere supporters here, but its just reality.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

    I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

    Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.
    The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

    If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.
    Span had concussion issues for half a season, sure it is a bit of a risk but not as much as you are making it out to be. Other then 2011 he has been pretty healthy. He is only owed 11 million over the next two years, that really isn't that high of a price tag at all. His team friendly option in 2014 has a buyout of only 500k if absolutely everything goes wrong.

    At the end of the day the "risk" for Span is rather low.

    Again, I'm not saying they are going to trade him for Dylan Bundy or James Shields straight up (though that would be nice!) but he does have plenty of value on his own and can certainly be the centerpiece of a trade that brings back a very solid pitcher.

  6. #26
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power).
    You mean other than Span missing 120+ games the last two years and being a poor baserunner/stealer who is only getting older?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.
    Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

    As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

    I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  8. #28
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    Would prefer Span was traded elsewhere, but this may be the best option. I am not enamered with the Braves pitchers,but Twins may have to take chances to get arms into the system. Tampa Bay has better options, but also the reputation of getting the best of trades.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

    CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
    You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.
    Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.

    We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.
    Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

    I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

    Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.
    Actually 4.8 so even better. 5 WAR is all star caliber, so Span is borderline in that respect. He is just short of a star in terms of performance. Definitely not a role player. A role player comes off the bench to pinch hit, as a defensive sub, or pinch run in my opinion. My personal view is that Span has a lot of value and we should keep him if the deal isn't right. Even more so if the rumors surrounding Revere become a reality.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.
    Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

    As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

    I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!
    Thanks BGB! Viva Chipper Jones!

  11. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Physics Guy's Avatar
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    Let's call him what he is: an above average starting CF with a team-friendly contract. We have no reason to dump his salary unless we get at least an average player in return that fills an area of need (SP or MI). Obviously supply and demand come into play, but there are several teams out there looking for a CF that doesn't cost per year what Span has coming the next two. His contract is for 11.25M over the next two years with a 9M optin (.5M buyout). Upton and Bourn are most likely going for over 10M per season. After that the next best is Pagan. Would you pay him big money?

  12. #32
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
    Would you pay him big money?
    The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Physics Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
    Would you pay him big money?
    The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.
    The "Would You pay him big money?" quote was in reference to Pagan.

    Agreed, but money is the issue for the Braves, Rays and some others. They have assets to trade and want to save money. Otherwise wouldn't they sign Bourn and Upton and be done with it?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.
    Span is a very good CF and leadoff man who is on a pretty team friendly contract. Revere is a slap hitting, noodle arm (albeit great range) who projects to be a PR and a 4th OF.

    The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power)

    And I actually am one of the Revere supporters here, but its just reality.
    Amen to all about Span. He is one of the most productive players on the team--OK a bad team, but still Span would represent an improvement over most CFs--especially on a cost-adjusted basis. Ergo, money that didn't have to be spent to get those 4 Wins can be applied to upgrade at another position to improve the WAR rating there.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
    Would you pay him big money?
    The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.
    The "Would You pay him big money?" quote was in reference to Pagan.

    Agreed, but money is the issue for the Braves, Rays and some others. They have assets to trade and want to save money. Otherwise wouldn't they sign Bourn and Upton and be done with it?
    The money isn't really the issue for the Braves. They're still trying hard to sign Bourn. However, they cannot afford a mistake contract, so going after Pagan at 4/36 would be poorly spent resources, so if they don't get Bourn, Span's salary relative to talent becomes a big factor, but they will be going hard after Bourn.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  16. #36
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    The Braves and Twins make sense to me.

    No matter what our own personal thoughts are about Denard Span and his talent level. I think we can agree that Atlanta would love to have him. How much would they love to have him is the big question. I'd do Span plus to get a deal done for one of those young arms.

    The Braves certaininly have extra Starting Pitching. Big Gentle Ben... Please do keep us posted if you hear anything.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.
    Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

    As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

    I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!
    Thanks BGB! Viva Chipper Jones!
    Wow. Already wrong after the BoSox signed David Ross today. That puts the Braves in need of at least one catcher, if not two, depending on how they feel about Evan Gattis in a Ryan Doumit-esque role.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  18. #38
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    The Braves and Twins make sense to me.

    No matter what our own personal thoughts are about Denard Span and his talent level. I think we can agree that Atlanta would love to have him. How much would they love to have him is the big question. I'd do Span plus to get a deal done for one of those young arms.

    The Braves certaininly have extra Starting Pitching. Big Gentle Ben... Please do keep us posted if you hear anything.
    I'm hoping that the Reds get in a bidding war here... both teams could use Span.

  19. #39
    While it's important to note Span's WAR was 4 last season I think you have to crunch the numbers even further to really get a sense of how good and valuable he is. For example, his Advanced WAR was +19 and his Weather Channel Hitting in All Conditions (HAC) rating was 21. With the leather, his SVU defensive readiness survey came in at 38, best among left handed center fielders in the AL Central. Furthermore, his NASA Advanced Positioning Defensive Survey was an 8, and I don't have to tell any of you how staggering that is. Long story short, the Braves better be ready to cough up the good stuff.

  20. #40
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    Hope TR gets other teams involived. We need more options(like Tampa Bay or Seattle). All of these teams have excess pitching and want outfielders. Span seems to be considered to get a mid level pitcher from the Braves, Hope we can find more elsewhere(maybe with another prospect or Parmalee).

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