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Thread: This proves nothing but think about it anyway.

  1. #1
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    This proves nothing but think about it anyway.

    The Cards have done it again. Two different managers! Are the Cards exceptional at hiring managers or do the players get the job done and take the managers for a ride or is it the baseball gods.

    Need a middle infield to win? Exactly Who are Descalso and Kozma?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I don't know, but I'm getting kind of tired of these Cardinals post-season miracles. They've had more than their share.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star
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    I think the talent level on that team has more to do with it than the managers. And most of their players are vets so probably aren't all that bothered by a manager change, anyways.

  4. #4
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    No LaRussa? no problem. No Pujols? no problem. Down by 6 runs in the final game of the series? no problem

    They have the chutzpah that I've felt that the Twins have lacked for years.

  5. #5
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I think the talent level on that team has more to do with it than the managers. And most of their players are vets so probably aren't all that bothered by a manager change, anyways.
    The talent level on the team always has more to do with it than the managers, win or lose.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    They also have decent pitching, espically in the bullpen. They have added talent, both from the farm system and outside, note that Scott Schumaker is now a bench player after being a starter for some of the last few years. Twins need to get to that level and remember this is another mid market team.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    That's the beauty of baseball! As Texas learned last year, and now Washington, you can't just run out the clock. You have to get that last out, get that last strike. Until that happens, anything's possible.

  8. #8
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    My theories are as weak as any theory floated by any of us. Of course that doesn't stop me...

    If it was about the Manager... The Cards are tough to explain. Its also tough to explain how crappy the Orioles were last year compared to this year under the same manager. It's also hard to explain why the great Joe Maddon isn't winning it every year. Francona can go from the World Series to Cleveland.

    If it was about the Talent Level of the team... It's hard to explain the Orioles and A's this year and harder to explain the Rangers and Angels this year.

    The Cards have talent... Any team would love to have Craig, Beltran and Holliday in the lineup. Jay has performed nicely, Freese has done a decent job but can anyone say that the Cards talent level stacked up to the Nats... To the Rangers... To the Angels...

    On Paper I can't... On the Field... Obviously it does.

    Of all the statements... I agree with Chutzpah the most.

    Get some pitching that gives you a chance... And Compete!!!

    If you have a major league uniform to wear... You can play.

    Right now... It would take a special kind of Cardinals goofball to be concerned about Descalso hitting .227 during the 2012 season.

    My theory... I don't know... Baseball is a beautiful game... Intangibles and inches make physical and psychological differences... Bust your ass during the regualar season... Get into the playoffs... Once that is accomplished... Anything can happen.

    Dear Terry Ryan... Get us some pitching and lots of it... Whatever it takes... The other thing I ask for is... An Inspiration Transplant of sorts. If we are going to lose in 2013... Let's at least do it in an inspired manner.

    Descalso... Who could have thunk Descalso!

  9. #9
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Anyone still want to trade Span for Storen?

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Anyone still want to trade Span for Storen?
    The trade should be Butera forStoren to make the last trade even

  11. #11
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    The Cardinals ranked 5th overall in hitting and 7th overall in giving up runs. Their starters ranked fourth overall in ERA. This is a very solid team and very balanced.

    It's probably worth noting that while their manager changed this year, their GM changed before the 2008 season. John Mozeliak might be the best GM nobody's ever heard of. They had won the World Series in 2006 (the surprising win over the Tigers) and finished 3rd in their division the year before. In his first year, they won 86 games, but finished 4th. The next year they won their division - and lost in the first round.

    In the three years since then, they haven't won their division, but made it into the playoffs two times as the wild card, wining the World Series last year and advancing to the NLDS next year. The most games they've won in his tenure....91 games. But the least is 86. And that's in the weak NL Central. That sure sounds a lot like the Twins of the last decade.

    I don't know the secret sauce for winning in the playoffs. Chutzpah is as good a name as any, but it's good because it's so nebulous and easy to claim after the fact. When the Cards were down to their last out, with a lone runner on third, did anyone here think "No problem. The Cards have Chutzpah!" Hell no. If you can identify that, get a bookie. T

    hat doesn't mean it's all luck. It just means it isn't something one can plan for.

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    No one would say that Chutzpah alone wins a championship. Of course, you always need hitting and pitching too.

    I'm the one who used the word but I'm not convinced its right. When I watch the faces of the Cardinals, I see a kind of calm confidence and self-belief.

    It's elusive -- and it isn't something that can be captured or easily explained. Just keep watching the faces and body language. (And for a contrast, think back to the Twins in post-season games. Weren't there times when you could just tell by their look and demeanor that it was over? I know there were times that I talked about it in chat.)

    Baseball isn't all statistics. It also isn't all luck. It's just that the demeanor/chemistry part can't be easily characterized. And John's right, it can't be planned for -- but when you see the same thing repeatedly (a la Minnesota), something needs to change and its always been my personal opinion that it has to start by replacing Gardenhire. He generally looked beat before they began post-season play.

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