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Thread: Liriano

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ex-Iowegian View Post
    How many years after the great season (2006) have to pass before people stop thinking that Liriano can replicate that success? Six? Eight?
    His best days are gone. No reason to think that he can get that form back.
    As for incentives? If he couldn’t get it together last year, in a contract year, why would one think he would respond to incentives?
    I wish him well. But he needs to be someone else’s headache.
    He's not very far removed from 2010. How would you like to insert this stat line into next year's rotation for little cost?
    191.2 IP, 201 K, 14 W, 3.62 ERA

    He has the same (or better) stuff today as he did in 2010. Sadly, he has the same head as he did in 2011 and 2012. I don't think anyone is still basing any hopes on 2006, but he's still had stretches of dominance (every season) that tease and tease and tease.

  2. #62
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Liriano ranked third in the majors in K/9 rate this year (his best mark since '06) and had a 4.14 xFIP. There are some underlying numbers that suggest considerable upside and he's still under 30 years old. I think he's a guy that a lot of people here would be clamoring for as a buy-low candidate if they hadn't had to deal with his frustrating inconsistency from up close over the past couple seasons.

  3. #63
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex-Iowegian View Post
    How many years after the great season (2006) have to pass before people stop thinking that Liriano can replicate that success? Six? Eight?
    His best days are gone. No reason to think that he can get that form back.
    As for incentives? If he couldnít get it together last year, in a contract year, why would one think he would respond to incentives?
    I wish him well. But he needs to be someone elseís headache.
    He was also very good in 2008, 2010 and a decent chuck of the Twins season (when they brought him back up from the pen)

    I don't think he is going to post a sub 3 ERA and a 10k/9 2.5 BB rate like '06, but I think its entirely possible that he could post a 4.00 ERA if things break right (along with some really outstanding preformances)

  4. #64
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Pitching in this league is terrible. I know people get angry about Liriano not reaching his full/half/quarter of his actual potential, but he is and can be a decent pitcher in this league. People are not saying that we go out and bid high on him. He cannot and will not be the prize of this offseason. But he can be a good back-page guy. If someone else in the league offers him a conract, we will not get in a bidding war.

    The conversation is: for the right price, would you take back Liriano. I say yes, if the price is cheap take a flier on a guy who has ace stuff, with a JV head.

  5. #65
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Liriano had the 4th best whiff/swing rate in 2012 at 28.4%, right between Darvish and Strasburg. His slider is every bit as good as Greinke's or Sabathia's, probably better. There's a role for Liriano somewhere, its obviously not here. I hope he finds a good fit in the NL so we don't have to face him.

  6. #66
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    And I'm not against that move... If the Twins can pick up two legitimate starters. I'd go for a Sanchez/Jackson/Marcum type for 3 years and then sign Baker (pending physical and rehab status, that is). If you are confident that Baker can perform, snatch him up and fill in two rotation spots with filler until Gibson is ready (which he shouldn't be in April... If you start him out of ST, then you just have to bench him in August anyway... Better to do it the other way around).
    Two just isn't going to happen. Realistically I think we need to hope for one, bring back Baker, and roll with what we have. You're talking about an opening rotation of FA-Diamond-Deduno-Hendricks-DeVries with Vasquez/Walters/Hernandez in the mix as well. Yeah, it's ugly, but you have Gibson and hopefully Baker coming along later. Not to mention I think you have to consider trading Span for an arm to add to that mix as well. (It's what I would do personally)

    As far as competing next year - I think it's a delusion to begin with, I don't feel tethered by that ball and chain. I don't see any reason to sink 4M into a guy like Liriano when it would be better served adding a Doumit-like bat for depth (I believe we'll need it) after Span is dealt. You'll get much more bang for your buck and none of the aggravation that comes with that guy. I'll repeat it again because we have a ton of turd-polishing going on in here: In three of the last four seasons he has been one of the worst starters in the AL. At some point the consistently bad results matter more than peripheral numbers.

  7. #67
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I'm perfectly fine with Liriano on a 1 year deal (though I suspect that ship has sailed) so long as this is not the only pitching change the Twins make. If they go out and get two pitchers on longer term deals and sign Liriano to a 1 year prove it deal, I'd say good offseason.

  8. #68
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Two just isn't going to happen. Realistically I think we need to hope for one, bring back Baker, and roll with what we have. You're talking about an opening rotation of FA-Diamond-Deduno-Hendricks-DeVries with Vasquez/Walters/Hernandez in the mix as well. Yeah, it's ugly, but you have Gibson and hopefully Baker coming along later. Not to mention I think you have to consider trading Span for an arm to add to that mix as well. (It's what I would do personally)

    As far as competing next year - I think it's a delusion to begin with, I don't feel tethered by that ball and chain. I don't see any reason to sink 4M into a guy like Liriano when it would be better served adding a Doumit-like bat for depth (I believe we'll need it) after Span is dealt. You'll get much more bang for your buck and none of the aggravation that comes with that guy. I'll repeat it again because we have a ton of turd-polishing going on in here: In three of the last four seasons he has been one of the worst starters in the AL. At some point the consistently bad results matter more than peripheral numbers.
    I consider Baker to be a legitimate starter if he's in any condition to pitch before June.

  9. #69
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    1. I don't understand why anyone thinks Liriano wants to play here. He's going to get an offer to play somewhere else because he can get strikeouts. He has clashed with the coaching staff for years, and had been unhappy with the front office in the past.

    2. Liriano has an ERA of 4.75 since coming back from Tommy John surgery. His walk rate is over 4. Why would you want him back? He's not good at preventing runs from scoring. That's his job.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ching_standard
    He's essentially Tony Batista here. The Twins need power, so they go get a player who might hit some homers, but will do everything else so terribly that he is damaging to the team's success. The Twins need some guys to miss bats, so they get a guy whose strikeouts don't result in good pitching.

  10. #70
    The problem is that Liriano has broken our collective hearts too many times. While we remember his terrific first year (pre-TJ Surgery) there isnít a lot to brag about after his return.
    He probably wonít have a lot of options because he didnít impress many in Chicago, so his price might be right. Maybe give him a low contract that is incentive laden and move him quickly to the bullpen if he stinks it up.

  11. #71
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    As far as competing next year - I think it's a delusion to begin with, I don't feel tethered by that ball and chain. I don't see any reason to sink 4M into a guy like Liriano when it would be better served adding a Doumit-like bat for depth (I believe we'll need it) after Span is dealt. You'll get much more bang for your buck and none of the aggravation that comes with that guy. I'll repeat it again because we have a ton of turd-polishing going on in here: In three of the last four seasons he has been one of the worst starters in the AL. At some point the consistently bad results matter more than peripheral numbers.
    This.

  12. #72
    Thanks nick ... you've started to open the door that needs to opened ... though the Twins won a bunch of Division titles - they sucked ... they only beat up on the bad teams and won a weak division ...
    The reason is that their philosophy of how to play baseball is wrong ... it goes back to Tom Kelley ... his bland, boring baseball might work for high school, but it won't win in the majors ... seriously ... he got lucky because he had 2 good pitchers to get him through the playoffs in 1987 and 1991 ... those teams sucked during the season ... the concepts of "pitch to contact" and that ridiculous way they teach to hit are pathetic ... you win with emotional Latin players - the Twins pitching staff should be" Santana, Garza, Loehse, Liriano ... Ramos should be catching ...

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ex-Iowegian View Post
    How many years after the great season (2006) have to pass before people stop thinking that Liriano can replicate that success? Six? Eight?
    His best days are gone. No reason to think that he can get that form back.
    As for incentives? If he couldn’t get it together last year, in a contract year, why would one think he would respond to incentives?
    I wish him well. But he needs to be someone else’s headache.
    He was also very good in 2008, 2010 and a decent chuck of the Twins season (when they brought him back up from the pen)

    I don't think he is going to post a sub 3 ERA and a 10k/9 2.5 BB rate like '06, but I think its entirely possible that he could post a 4.00 ERA if things break right (along with some really outstanding preformances)
    I kept getting sucked into that every other year hope that he would find something to build on, too. But it looks to me like he is headed for a more consistent stretch of blandness with an ERA hovering around 4.8 +/-. Occassional run into a stretch of good innings. But one always feels like the othe shoe will drop at any minute.

    Wow. Feels like I just described Cole DeVries.

  14. #74
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabeleis View Post
    the Twins pitching staff should be" Santana, Garza, Loehse, Liriano ...
    If only we had 60 million a year to spend on a rotation....

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