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Thread: The "Firings" that were not.

  1. #41
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.

  2. #42
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past. I know that many would have given their right arm to see Ulger canned, and it looks like that is essentially what happened (at least to the extent that he's no longer working with the major league franchise). I'm not quite sure Vavra deserved it, and I don't get your hate of Anderson. I do think it's good that they are bringing in some fresh blood. Hopefully continues with the head of the medical staff and then some players.

  3. #43
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.
    Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.

  4. #44
    I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

    Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

    The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.

  5. #45
    Junior Member Rookie gilesferrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westgaard66 View Post
    I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

    Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

    The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.
    Agreed. Try the new guys, but if the team show no signs of life, clean the whole house.
    "They are the team Minnesota deserves, not the one they need right now."

  6. #46
    Senior Member Double-A Lesser Dali's Avatar
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    3 things to comment on -

    1. It's to bad about Molitor not being a fit for one of our coaching vacancies. I am not sure what kind of impact Molitor would have had at the end of the day, but with him being one of the best offensive tradesmen of his era might have had a better than decent impact on the position players who will be on the roster next season. His expert baserunning knowledge could have played well with a guy like Revere. I understand that Molitor coaches the players in spring training, but to have access to a coach with Molitor's experience and uber success on a day in and day out basis would have much more of an impact than only spring training.

    2. There are 3 places that Ben Revere will be next season.
    a. Starting in the outfield for the Twins
    b. A bench player on the Twins MLB roster
    c. Starting in the OF in Rochester

    He has no trade value, thus he will not be traded

    3. If Vavra and Ullger indeed become the base coaches for the Twins - I will lose no sleep, I will not punch a hole in the wall, I will go about my daily business as I always do. Whether it is right or wrong - the world will not end - Unless you are a 2012 Mayan Calendar conspiracy theorist. Good Luck with that nonsense.

  7. #47
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.
    Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.
    Well said.

  8. #48
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Here's an update from the strib. fyi
    General Manager Terry Ryan plans to meet with Gardenhire in Fort Myers, Fla., later this week to discuss the team's coaching openings, but the timing of that meeting will hinge on the health of Gardenhire's mother.
    It's unclear what roles Ullger and Vavra will have moving forward, but Ullger's duties will include outfield instruction and Vavra's will include infield instruction.

  9. #49
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnfireman View Post
    Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.
    Maybe the FO is milking this period as long as the media and fans continue to mischaracterize some of these moves as "firings," seeing that some fans are satiated by it. Certainly there is no one muzzling Gardy lamenting to the media about losing staff and not being offered an extension.

    How did this even become particularly newsworthy? There are no guaranteed extensions in any occupation, certainly not sports, and certainly not if you haven't received one by mid-season. The season is over, the contracts expired, that's all.

    Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.

    Maybe this story whole thing has taken off better than anyone in the FO could have expected.

  10. #50
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.
    I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."

  11. #51
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    I really don't understand this Vavra, Ullger stuff. Are they coaches or are they instructors? Ullger should not be a base coach. Was worse then Liddle at 3B and Liddle wasn't great. Vavra I thought did alright as a batting coach. But I only want 1 batting coach on the traveling, gameday coaching staff. I don't want half my players going to Vavra and half going to Bruno. That is only going to cause problems.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens none the least. But I guess I just don't understand the reassigned which is really just a job change. Reassigned made it sound like they are still in the organization but no longer coaches. But what do I know

  12. #52
    Senior Member Double-A MWLFan's Avatar
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    I don't understand the Molitor chorus. I say this honestly and not trying to be cute. What are his qualifications for the job of manager? His 3000 hits and Hall of Fame career only take you so far here. Ted Williams was the maybe the best hitter ever and stunk as a Manager. Babe Ruth was turned down several times to a be manager of a few teams. Ryne Sandberg is working his way up through the minors, riding buses in the Midwest League a few years ago. So what level has Paul managed at? Why is he a better fit then say Gene Glynn. What are his people skills like, how does he handle it when discipline needs to be applied, what about when a different approach needs to be used for different personalities?

    Not saying he can't do it, but what is his track record. I mean you can go all Kenny Williams and turn a mulit million dollar franchise over to a person with no managerial back ground because he has 3000 hits and is from St. Paul, see Robin "Can you stop pounding my head Mr. Ryan" Ventura, and hope that lightning strikes. But could you see the Vikings pulling say Fran Tarkenton back to be Head Coach or the Timberwolves bringing in JR Rider? (Got admit that last one would be fun.) Maybe Mr. Molitor should go to at least Rochester and build that Resume and see if he can succeed in the job and also if he really likes the job. He may not like it as much as he thinks.

  13. #53
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.
    I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."
    Is that true? I am having a hard time finding out for sure. In the Mackey article, he says all the coaches signed 2 years extensions after 2010, except Gardy

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