Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 51

Thread: Article: Bloodbath

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
    Posts
    1,674
    Twitter
    @nnelson9
    Like
    6
    Liked 77 Times in 29 Posts
    Blog Entries
    318

    Article: Bloodbath


  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
    Posts
    2,421
    Like
    2
    Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    26
    I haven't bothered to sit down and look this up, but I have to wonder how many managers in the past have had consecutive 90-loss seasons and not been replaced.

  3. #3
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
    Posts
    1,674
    Twitter
    @nnelson9
    Like
    6
    Liked 77 Times in 29 Posts
    Blog Entries
    318
    Well, Tom Kelly, for one. Went through four straight 90-plus loss seasons from '97 to 2000 before turning things around in 2001 and then retiring.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    603
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I think Bobby Valentine demonstrates exactly why they didn't fire Gardy and Anderson.

    All of our non-pitchers are under contract next year, and you have a core of pitchers they hope to build around. Replacing EVERYONE could easily create the kind of culture clash that caused toxicity in the Boston clubhouse.

    Not only that, but now Boston is going to be paying Bobby V 2.5 mill to NOT manage them next year. Do you really think TR wants to be on the hook for two managers salaries next year?

    Far better to send a strong message and then simply let the contract expire and have only a few new pieces to add.



    Also, is Mickey Hatcher still looking for a coaching job?

  5. #5
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,573
    Like
    828
    Liked 815 Times in 518 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    I haven't bothered to sit down and look this up, but I have to wonder how many managers in the past have had consecutive 90-loss seasons and not been replaced.
    I asked this on another thread. I do know of one for sure, and it illustrates the current problem. Tom Kelly. 97,98,99,00 (with loss totals of 97,92,97,93).

  6. #6
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,573
    Like
    828
    Liked 815 Times in 518 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by spideyo View Post
    I think Bobby Valentine demonstrates exactly why they didn't fire Gardy and Anderson.

    All of our non-pitchers are under contract next year, and you have a core of pitchers they hope to build around. Replacing EVERYONE could easily create the kind of culture clash that caused toxicity in the Boston clubhouse.

    Not only that, but now Boston is going to be paying Bobby V 2.5 mill to NOT manage them next year. Do you really think TR wants to be on the hook for two managers salaries next year?

    Far better to send a strong message and then simply let the contract expire and have only a few new pieces to add.



    Also, is Mickey Hatcher still looking for a coaching job?
    I was typing while you were posting. The example of Bobby Valentine is a poor one. He would not fit here, would never have been considered by ownership or management, and besides that, he would never have wanted to come here. How about Ron Washington or Mike Scoscia? Much better fits, who may both soon be looking for another job. With all the Latin players here or on the fast track to the majors, how about contacting Ivan Rodriguez for a coaching job? I bet Omar Vizquel would jump at a major league coaching job offer. There certainly have to be potential pitching coaches out there available that could give the Twins the fresh approach they so desperately need with all the young arms in the organization. Sign two FA pitchers that don't need a lot of hands-on attention and you've got yourself a change in the right direction back towards AL relevancy.
    Last edited by jokin; 10-04-2012 at 11:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
    Posts
    6,436
    Twitter
    @sethtweets
    Like
    64
    Liked 347 Times in 183 Posts
    Blog Entries
    515
    Justin Morneau is NOT happy at all with the decision to fire Joe Vavra, and I agree with him! Vavra has done the job. 2 MVPs. Mauer's batting titles. Willingham and Doumit's best seasons. Plouffe's emergence.

    Shipley article in the Pioneer Press:
    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...-joe-vavra-out

    "I had some good seasons in the minor leagues, obviously, but when my career really turned around was when he kind of took over," Morneau said. "It's one of those things you're disappointed to see."
    "I think he's one of the only coaches in the big leagues with multiple MVPs, batting titles, and we won team batting titles under him. We've had some great offensive teams, and he's meant a lot to me -- second to none."

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,964
    Like
    4
    Liked 113 Times in 81 Posts
    Blog Entries
    65
    Vavra was not at all the problem. Anderson and Gardenhire are. Gardy's sticking around is one thing given his contract, but Anderson REALLY needs to go away.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    786
    Like
    14
    Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    I think TR was admitting part of the issue was the amount of money to spend on draft picks under the old system and the fact the Twins had late first round picks and then had to watch the money for signability issues before the last couple of CBA's. Anderson seems to have gotten a pass due to starting rotation injuries and ineffectiveness(Blackburn, Marquis) from pitchers who have a lack of talent. I do not remember a modern era major league club that did not finish the year with a least one member of the starting rotation from spring training left, and I do not think those issues were all Anderson. I hope this is not a statement that the Twins do not intend to sign any FA starters from at least the middle group. That would set Gardy and Andy both up for failure, along with the front office, plus send the Twins into a downward attendence spiral that would be hard to reverse. I believe that TR had to find major league openings for Cuellar and Brunansky or probably lose both of them this winter. These moves will not mean a lot if not followed with some signings that will give hope to Twins fans for the next year. Due to BIll Smith the pitching cuboard is bare for another year or two at least, that needs to be fixed by trades or FA signings. I believe TR will explore both, but trades risky as they can be will be the way to fix the club. I only hope TR is as good as Billy Beane in talent evaluation.

  10. #10
    Off the subject - from ESPN's Keith Law

    What kind of numbers could Chris Parmelee put up in a full season? He seems to be a different player over the last year and a half. Make sense to trade Morneau and give him a shot?
    Klaw (2:09 PM)


    I am not a big believer in Parmelee or Plouffe, sorry. I don't think either guy is an average everyday player.

  11. #11
    I am curious about the Vavra (infield) and Ullger (outfield) pedigrees for their new positions. It lends itself to having one full time and one part time hitting coach if Vavra stays at the major league level, which is kind of unclear at this point. Probably too soon to tell.
    I agree that keeping Cuellar and Bruno may have had more to do with this than many will give credit. It will be fun to see who, if anyone, comes up from within the organization.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    443
    Like
    1
    Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by beckmt View Post
    I do not remember a modern era major league club that did not finish the year with a least one member of the starting rotation from spring training left, and I do not think those issues were all Anderson.
    Technically 1 starter from the opening day roster was still in the rotation at the end of the season. Liam Hendricks came North with the Twins because Marquis stayed behind due to his daughter's accident.

  13. #13
    Twins web site indicates Vavra and Ullger will be minor league instructors.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
    Posts
    2,755
    Like
    640
    Liked 380 Times in 212 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    edit: wasn't aware of the update
    Last edited by Willihammer; 10-05-2012 at 09:34 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
    Posts
    1,260
    Like
    77
    Liked 311 Times in 151 Posts
    Isn't this a little like going to the Dr and he says I have bad news you have brain cancer. But the good news is we can cure it by cutting off your arms and legs.
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
    Posts
    1,235
    Like
    8
    Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    10
    I think Andy should have been let go. The re-assignment thing is really ridiculous. Get the guys out of the clubhouse. Vavra and Gardy would be the only 2 coaches I'd keep.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,168
    Like
    1,240
    Liked 1,191 Times in 694 Posts
    Pretty much the way it is in every war.

    The Generals and the Colonels (Gardenhire & Anderson) are pretty darn safe.

    The captains (Ullger & Vavra) are reassigned to positions further away from the battlefield.

    The lieutenants, corporals and privates (Stelly, White, Liddle, McWane) are dead.

    It is a ridiculous way to effect change in an organization.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    271
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    How much do you think the decisions on which coaches stay vs go had to do with TR talking with players to get their opinions? Would he take someone like Pavano or Mauer's opinions on the matter?

  19. #19
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,022
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,514 Times in 792 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Where are all the people complaining about how the medical staff is the problem and that nothing will be done about it?

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,618
    Like
    259
    Liked 193 Times in 119 Posts
    Just looked up a few but managers that have had back to back 90+ loses that weren't fired included Kelly, Torre, Mauch, Cox, Mack, Maddon, Pinella, Trembley, Hargrove, Torborg, Trammel, Houck, McNamara, etc

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.