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Thread: Twins release Tsuyoshi Nishioka

  1. #21
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Guys the Twins were going to get rid of Hardy either way so I wouldn't blame Nishioka for it. I just think that it was everything went wrong since he came and he couldn't turn it around.

  2. #22
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    Nishi is clearly a man of honor. There are too few of those these days. This is the kind of risk you need to take if you are bad at developing players and will not sign big time free agents. Some risks work, and some do not. But, successful companies keep taking them.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Good show, Tsuyoshi. It takes a fair amount of sack to decline a paycheck you were guaranteed.
    Or he preferred to go back to Japan (to take a slight paycut) where he could play in the best league/be a star again rather then riding the bus between Rochester and Scranton for another season?

    I don't give him any credit, he was a terrible ball player for this club and is one of the reasons why this team finished in last place two years in a row. Good riddance.

    He was a big part of the reason the 2011 team finished in last place. He had very little to do with how bad the 2012 team was/is.
    The Twins got rid of Hardy and choose to bring in Nishioka to be the teams starting SS in 2011/12/13. The SS woes that plague the team this year are still his fault, since he was getting paid to be the starting SS.

    I can't blame Nishioka for this season.

    It's not Nishioka's fault that the Twins didn't like Hardy and traded him for nothing. It's not Nishioka's fault the Twins didn't do their due diligence before signing him. I guess you could argue he should have played better, but considering the statistics on him between AA, AAA, and MLB, I don't think he's performed below his talent level.

  4. #24
    Very classy move by Nishioka. I'm surprised he wasn't even able to negotiate some kind of buyout. I wish him the best.

    I had high hopes for him when he first came to the Twins. I saw him down in Ft Myers in March of 2011 and he was constantly getting on base and looked very promising. I thought maybe the Twins found a diamond in the rough. Alas...it was not to be.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I see this as a good deal for both sides -- and I see it as the logical move by both sides. I don't think it says ANYTHING about anybody's honor or classiness.

    It just makes cold business sense for both sides.

  6. #26
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    In my book this takes him off the hook for the title of worst Twins free agent ever. At least the Twins recovered the $3.25 million where as the Twins had to pay Mike Lamb to be terrible for the Brewers after his release in 2008 and then pay him to be terrible for the Mets AAA team in 2009.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Good show, Tsuyoshi. It takes a fair amount of sack to decline a paycheck you were guaranteed.
    Or he preferred to go back to Japan (to take a slight paycut) where he could play in the best league/be a star again rather then riding the bus between Rochester and Scranton for another season?

    I don't give him any credit, he was a terrible ball player for this club and is one of the reasons why this team finished in last place two years in a row. Good riddance.

    He was a big part of the reason the 2011 team finished in last place. He had very little to do with how bad the 2012 team was/is.
    The Twins got rid of Hardy and choose to bring in Nishioka to be the teams starting SS in 2011/12/13. The SS woes that plague the team this year are still his fault, since he was getting paid to be the starting SS.
    SpiritofVodkaDave, you're logic is crap and have some empathy. Nishioka did not make the Twins make the terrible Hardy trade. He didn't make them overpay him for three years. He did suck, but he didn't make the sucky decision that got nothing in return for Hardy and left them in a hole for three years. That blame lies with the FO.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Who would have guessed the guy with a .412 BABIP in 2010 would regress so hard.
    Remember when Nick N and others questioned whether Nishi would succeed in the MLB based on many factors including babip? And those who disagreed called him a racist? Good times.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Also:

    JJ-Hardy.jpg

  10. #30
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Don't blame the playah. Who predicted this? Nobody. I'm glad Nishi decided to end the experiment and go play baseball back home. Good luck to him.

  11. #31
    Hey, I give credit to Nishioka for being a man, as far as THIS organization is concerned and recognizing that he wasn't going to do anything over here except hold the organization hostage for $3 million+, which, contractually, he had every right to do.

    I think it also puts a different perspective on this whole chapter for Twins fans, or at least it should. If Nishioka had come over on a one-year deal for $4 million, nobody would've cared that he sucked. It was the length of the deal and the fact that a failing team on a limited budget was going to have to pay this guy millions of dollars for a 2nd and 3rd year with no potential of ANYTHING to offer the big league club. Much like Gil Meche did a few years ago, he cut the team a break. I hope he finds success again back in Japan.

  12. #32
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    The Blackburn situation is entirely different, if he "walked away" from the money he would basically be retiring.

    It's not like he can come out and say "I have been terrible, I want the Twins to release me" then turn around and try to come back to the majors for another team, if he gives that money back the players union would never let him back in. (I guarantee you Nishioka would be blackballed from ever coming back to the US...not that any team would want him)
    I don't think Nishioka would be blackballed -- I'm pretty sure international players would be viewed quite differently. He may make less in 2013 this way, but his 2014+ earnings potential is much better if he doesn't waste another season at AAA. Although I agree the odds of him ever returning to the U.S. are very, very low.

    In theory, if Blackburn were in an identical situation (guaranteed stuck at AAA with Minnesota), he could probably negotiate a buyout so he could try to catch on with another club. But more likely, the Twins would just do him an equivalent favor by trading him and eating the salary.

    But in Blackburn's case, the Twins are still his best shot to play in the majors in 2013, regardless of contract.

  13. #33
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    It'll probably be a soft landing for Nishi - he might already have an arrangement with a Japanese team - but it still takes character to walk away from guaranteed money like that. I've never heard anyone question his heart or desire, just his ability to handle The Show, so I can't say I'm surprised. Good luck to him. I'll root for him to bounce back strong there.

  14. #34
    Here is my analysis of the Nishioka situation, feature at Rant Sports.com
    Link: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2012/0...oshi-nishioka/

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    He was a big part of the reason the 2011 team finished in last place. He had very little to do with how bad the 2012 team was/is.
    He wasn't a big part of either year. The Twins have played 318 games in 2011 and 2012. Nishioka appeared in only 71 of those games.

    The Twins record on those games? 31-40

    Record with no Nishi? 97-150.

    To be clear, I'm not denying Nishi was awful. Clearly, he was. But there's plenty of blame to go around for 2 seasons of sucktastic baseball, and pinning it all on Nishi is turning a blind eye to the myriad of other problems with this team.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    The millions weren't worth the humiliation to play in the minor leagues. He'll get paid similarly in Japan. It works out nice for the Twins, but I wouldn't call the move by Nishi classy...
    Last edited by PseudoSABR; 09-28-2012 at 02:58 PM.

  17. #37
    What is announced publicly and what actually happens behind the scenes are not always the same. Although I have no real evidence to prove it, I would be very surprised if Terry Ryan did not, over the past month or so, explore every option for a buyout that included Nishioka's signing with a Japanese team - effectively trading him back home to Japan for "cash considerations". My guess is there were no takers at that price, but it would not surprise me if some Japanese teams showed interest if he was a free agent. All Ryan had to do in that case is report that to Nishioka and his agent at let them do the math and consider the damage to his "brand" if he stayed one more year at AAA. In fact, Ryan may have told him AAA was not guaranteed if he would be blocking other prospects. For all we know, Ryan may have told Nishioka he was going to be released and gave him the option of public face saving. Nishioka can now say he did what Japanese culture expects. (Many examples of Japanese business/government leaders resigning and taking responsibility.) Nishioka can go home saying he "resigned, took responsibility, and is willing to return to Japanese baseball to restore his dignity and honor." The bonus is: almost certainly he will make more money in the long run by doing so.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    He was a big part of the reason the 2011 team finished in last place. He had very little to do with how bad the 2012 team was/is.
    He wasn't a big part of either year. The Twins have played 318 games in 2011 and 2012. Nishioka appeared in only 71 of those games.

    The Twins record on those games? 31-40

    Record with no Nishi? 97-150.

    To be clear, I'm not denying Nishi was awful. Clearly, he was. But there's plenty of blame to go around for 2 seasons of sucktastic baseball, and pinning it all on Nishi is turning a blind eye to the myriad of other problems with this team.
    Yeah, I'm not saying Nishioka is responsible for the 2011 disaster. But he was a bigger part of that team than the 2012 team. Actutally, I think the Twins stuck with him too long in 2011.

    But what I was quoting was the poster who said Nishioka is a big part of the 2011 and 2012 disasters, which is somewhat less than half-true.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbwriterman View Post
    here is my analysis of the nishioka situation, feature at rant sports.com
    link: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2012/0...oshi-nishioka/
    derp

  20. #40
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    He was a big part of the reason the 2011 team finished in last place. He had very little to do with how bad the 2012 team was/is.
    He wasn't a big part of either year. The Twins have played 318 games in 2011 and 2012. Nishioka appeared in only 71 of those games.

    The Twins record on those games? 31-40

    Record with no Nishi? 97-150.

    To be clear, I'm not denying Nishi was awful. Clearly, he was. But there's plenty of blame to go around for 2 seasons of sucktastic baseball, and pinning it all on Nishi is turning a blind eye to the myriad of other problems with this team.
    Yeah, I'm not saying Nishioka is responsible for the 2011 disaster. But he was a bigger part of that team than the 2012 team. Actutally, I think the Twins stuck with him too long in 2011.

    But what I was quoting was the poster who said Nishioka is a big part of the 2011 and 2012 disasters, which is somewhat less than half-true.
    He was a part of the 2012 disaster becuase he was getting paid 3 million dollars to A.) Play terribly in AAA, and B.) Played hilariously awful in the majors those few games.

    This guy was getting paid good money to be a solution to the Twins middle INF, at the very least they thought he could be a slick fielding utility guy. But no, he decided to play baseball worse then anyone I have seen in a long time.

    Again, hes going to get paid in Japan, its not a classy move by him, its him putting his tail between his legs and going home. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he actually put his nose to the grindstone this off-season and worked on his game enough to get his bat back to an acceptable level and worked on his fielding to at least come into spring training looking like a ball player. He said he was "embarassed by his play" Good! At least he knows reality!

    Also people are saying it took "heart" and "balls" to do what he did, It doesn't take balls for a man to run away from his problems/adversity, it takes heart and balls for a guy to man up in the face of adversity and continue to work. Hell, even if he could have managed to figure out how to hit for .250-.260 and cleaned up his mental lapses in the field (that's what those were) he could have been in the mix for the Twins 2013 MI since the in house candidates are all pretty awful as well.

    Again, good riddance to the bum, I don't wish him any failure in Japan or anything, but I certainly don't wish him any sort of sustained success.

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