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Thread: Article: Where Does Carroll Fit In?

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: Where Does Carroll Fit In?


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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Good question. We'll have to see what happens in the offseason, but I'd say bring him back in a utility role, and maybe try to deal him at the deadline. We won't get much for him, but reliable veteran guys like that often draw interest from contenders.

    I kind of cringed when we signed Carroll, but I've come to appreciate him. He may not be the most talented guy, but he's a true professional. Regardless of the situation or the score, he plays hard, and he plays smart.

    I wish we could put Carroll's attitude and ethic into Casilla's body.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I am not sure why he lost favor at SS. He was good enough there. I think his role is utility, and we should hope so, because that likely means that Dozier and Florimon have been successful in the middle infield. Carroll filling in for injured players and backing up all three of those infield spots will get him enough playing time to keep his value high, but probably keep his PAs in the 300-350 range.

  4. #4
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Carroll is what he is. He's never had a regular position and he shouldn't even with the last place err....fourth place Twins. His maximum playing time should be as a "10th regular" filling in at all three infield spots.

    I think Carroll has been decent in the field and just a tick above what I expected with the bat. He is void of extra-base sock and he'll be 39 next season, but, on balance, he's been the Twins best middle infielder.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I was pretty "meh" about the Carroll signing when it happened and still feel that way. He's a decent bench/complementary player but nothing more than that. He's the type of piece a contender needs to keep the MI fresh through a long season.

    But I'm glad he was able to dispel the silly notion some had where he'd suddenly stop taking walks because he moved to the AL and no longer hits in front of the pitcher.

  6. #6
    Carroll has been the best middle infielder.

    It should be Carroll and Florimon to start next year.

    Dozier and Escobar to start in AAA.

  7. #7
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    The only thing Florimon "should" be is a reason for the team to look at potential upgrades.


    I've been having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the penciling in of Florimon, not only for a roster spot, but a starting spot no less. What am I missing?
    Last edited by snepp; 09-24-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    A middle infielder who makes pretty much all the routine plays and can post a .730 OPS... that's not exactly bad, and as of right now, what is the better option? I think he's been a very solid contributor, even with the bat. He's just a consummate professional out there. And, if he gets the playing time next season to guarantee 2014, good for him. Plus, it's only $2M which is very reasonable even if he does become "just a utility guy."

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    Senior Member Double-A COtwin's Avatar
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    Haven't we been in this situation for like 6 of the last 8 years. Carroll is a utility infielder. He is capable of producing at the plate, but we are seeing his ceiling right now. So what if he is performing now. When he was handed a starting role, he helped kill the season, and now that he has zero pressure he is producing. Pass. He should not become a lock for even second base anytime soon. He should need to compete for his job next year. Dozier, Florimon, Escobar, and Carroll are very similar in my mind. Yes, the last two can play third, but that doesn't make them worthy of a scholarship. I would rather give Dozier and Florimon a chance to start the year, with Escobar or Carroll as utility. I have a difficult time trusting that Carroll will produce at this level consistently next year. My two sense

  10. #10
    Trying to understand why Carroll is an average fielder? Is UZR for his career which is extensive is way above average at 2B and 3B. At 2nd he has fielded over 4500+ innings which is a great sample size. He is excellent at 2B. He is average at SS and this year he has fielded the position above average. Combine that with a decent average and OBP and he is a pretty solid guy to have around for the price. Starting 2B or playing wherever needed should be 100%.

  11. #11
    Carroll has some timely hits, does not usually beat himself. Smart-steady-stable is not a bad thing to add to a young infield.

    Don't make it over complicated, if he gets enough plate appeareances next next year to guarantee a third year it will be because he earned them.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManWinter View Post
    Carroll has some timely hits, does not usually beat himself. Smart-steady-stable is not a bad thing to add to a young infield.

    Don't make it over complicated, if he gets enough plate appeareances next next year to guarantee a third year it will be because he earned them.
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaBill View Post
    Carroll has been the best middle infielder.

    It should be Carroll and Florimon to start next year.

    Dozier and Escobar to start in AAA.
    I'd be okay with this. Maybe swap Florimon and Escobar and let Dozier and Florimon earn a spot on the big league team with good play at Rochester.

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    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    A middle infielder who makes pretty much all the routine plays and can post a .730 OPS... that's not exactly bad, and as of right now, what is the better option? I think he's been a very solid contributor, even with the bat. He's just a consummate professional out there. And, if he gets the playing time next season to guarantee 2014, good for him. Plus, it's only $2M which is very reasonable even if he does become "just a utility guy."
    This is what I was saying in the thread about Florimon potentially being the opening day shortstop.

    Florimon obviously has the range and the arm, but he's got a bit of "stone hands" to him... I've seen far too many routine groundballs clank off of him. And I don't think Florimon will ever be as good offensively as Carroll.

    I think Carroll will get enough plate appearances, by hook or by crook, to earn that 2014 option. And if he does, keep in mind that a) it's a player option, so there's a chance he'd rather retire at that point, and b) if he still wants to play, he might rather go play for another team by then.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COtwin View Post
    I have a difficult time trusting that Carroll will produce at this level consistently next year. My two sense
    Even though he has done it for a lot of years? That's the definition of consistency.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Double-A COtwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManWinter View Post
    Carroll has some timely hits, does not usually beat himself. Smart-steady-stable is not a bad thing to add to a young infield.

    Don't make it over complicated, if he gets enough plate appeareances next next year to guarantee a third year it will be because he earned them.
    I am going to have to disagree on that point. Through the first four months of the year Carroll's AB/OPS. April-84/.570, May-87/.607, June-80/.710, July- 71/.506. Without June in there he was close to a .560 OPS, pathetic. Even with June it was only around .600. How is that earning AB? True he does play good defense, but we have some young guys that do ok in the field. Dozier, Florimon, and Escobar could all end up as utility types, or maybe one breaks through. We won't know if Carroll takes 500 ABs next year. To answer Nick's original question, Carroll fits in on a team that is trying for the playoffs, as a high AB utility guy. Which we are definitely not.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    He needs to be used as a Nick Punto. No way should he be an everyday player at any position. His productivity this year is below average, and the dude is going to be 40. He is going to slip. His defense is OK, better than the younger guys, but average in relativity to the rest of the league. IMO, we will sign/trade for a shortstop or second baseman next year. Dozier/Floriman/Escobar will start at the other postion, and Carrol will be a bench player, which he should be.

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    New team, new league, new pitchers, new manager, new role (starting SS). I think it just took him a while to learn all of the above. Plus, I think he's more comfortable when the spotlight doesn't shine so brightly on him as starting SS. He's the utility player Gardy always wanted: + infielder at multiple positions who can hit as well as a starter.

  19. #19
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    But I'm glad he was able to dispel the silly notion some had where he'd suddenly stop taking walks because he moved to the AL and no longer hits in front of the pitcher.
    There might have been some people arguing that particular notion, but I think the more legitimate concern was that he'd have trouble maintaining his overall production while hitting in front of Joe Mauer as opposed to an NL pitcher. You just aren't going to get as many good pitches to hit in that setting. He's continued to control the strike zone well, but when batting in the No. 2 spot this year Carroll is hitting .250 with a .603 OPS – a sizable drop-off from his .700+ OPS in each of the past two years with the Dodgers. He's been better hitting at the bottom of the lineup, which is pretty clearly where he belongs.

  20. #20
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    But I'm glad he was able to dispel the silly notion some had where he'd suddenly stop taking walks because he moved to the AL and no longer hits in front of the pitcher.
    There might have been some people arguing that particular notion, but I think the more legitimate concern was that he'd have trouble maintaining his overall production while hitting in front of Joe Mauer as opposed to an NL pitcher. You just aren't going to get as many good pitches to hit in that setting. He's continued to control the strike zone well, but when batting in the No. 2 spot this year Carroll is hitting .250 with a .603 OPS – a sizable drop-off from his .700+ OPS in each of the past two years with the Dodgers. He's been better hitting at the bottom of the lineup, which is pretty clearly where he belongs.
    Yeah, that is a legitimate concern. Hitting in front of Mauer, the pitcher is going to try his damnedest to get you out before facing the meat of the lineup. On the other hand, I think we can all agree that Jamey Carroll is not a #2 hitter, despite the fact that he plays second base. As strange as it sounds, I've heard that other teams don't automatically insert a middle infielder in the two-spot in the lineup.

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