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Thread: Pedro Florimon vs Brian Dozier

  1. #1

    Pedro Florimon vs Brian Dozier

    Guess its the battle for the starting SS spot next year.
    Think many people would be surprised to find out that Florimon is actually 6months older than Dozier....which has been one of Brian's main detractions from fans/media.

    Twins would lead you to believe that Florimon is a slick fielding/smooth MLB style SS but his defense has statistically been far worse in his 24gms than Dozier was in his 83gms @ SS.
    Pedro 24gms 5 errors (3 fielding) .954 Fld Pct....-2.2UZR -21.4UZR/150gms 15 OOZ plays(out of zone)
    Dozier 83gms 15errors (6 fielding) .964Fld Pct...-0.8UZR -1.5UZR/150gms 39OOZ plays

    Dozier .234/.271/.332 33runs 6HR 33RBI 9/11sb 17.1K% 4.7bb%
    Pedro .253/.314/.367 12runs 0HR 5RBI 2/2sb 18.4K% 8.0bb%

    Florimon has never put up an offensive year close to what Dozier has done in the minors leading most to believe Dozier has far more upside with the bat

    Maybe Im wrong, but I think many people are very happy with Florimon's performance but it has been only as equal or even below to what Dozier was doin, & he doesnt have much to improve on offensively

  2. #2
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    I'll take Florimon's defense or Dozier's whatever the hell he offers. I don't think he's ever gonna hit like he showed in the minors and I don't think his defense will ever carry him enough.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    From what I've seen from Florimon, his defense is noticeably better. However, I think Dozier will hit enough to offset it. His defense is fine, probably more of a 2b, but don't think he is a disaster.

  4. #4
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    I prefer Florimon defensively, I think over a larger sample his stats would be superior in the field, he certainly looks more comfortable than Dozier. I can see Dozier playing 2B but it's going to on the strength of his bat, his defense will likely end up being adequate but he'll never be able to stay up with the team as a + defender.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    May we have another choice?

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    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I'll take the better defender and it looks like Florimon just using my eyes. I'd like to Escobar man the position to see what he can do.

    Offensively I'm just not going to worry too much about the difference between .220 and .240. Unless Tulo comes to town and wears a Twins Jersey. Give me Defense.

  7. #7
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    May we have another choice?
    You can have an Escobar.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    May we have another choice?
    not as long as Gardy is the manager & TR is the GM

  9. #9
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    I would also rather see Escobar at SS if we're going with internal options. He seems to be the most reliable fielder when it comes to routine plays, has good range and a good arm as well. From the games I've seen him play, he has shown to be a good situational hitter and he's also 2 years younger than either player. He has the highest ceiling between the 3 IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    May we have another choice?
    not as long as Gardy is the manager & TR is the GM
    I'm rather meh on the whole lot of them, but it appears the braintrust have talked themselves into forcing Florimon into the spot for 2013 and stats nothwithstanding, he does play the position more confidently and athletically and with a better arm. That leaves Escobar and Dozier fighting for 2B and Carroll as the UI. I'll speculate that the Twins declare 3B "open" and set up a competition for the spot between Dozier and Plouffe. However it finally shakes out, there will be huge needs to fill the glaring hole in MI positional depth in Rochester, as little to nothing is coming through to them from New Britain. Escobar and Dozier could very well be the starting Red Wing Middle Infielders in 2013- which hopefully means that the Twins acquired someone better in the offseason...there are published reports that a "certain" Orioles SS ( who just moved into the #1 spot for ESPN's AL SS WAR rankings at 3.1 http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting...RBR/order/true ) might be replaced by an up-and-coming phenom in Baltimore...naw, "not as long as Gardy is the manager & TR is the GM".

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Florimon [..] defense has statistically been far worse in his 24gms than Dozier was in his 83gms @ SS.
    Pedro 24gms 5 errors (3 fielding) .954 Fld Pct....-2.2UZR -21.4UZR/150gms 15 OOZ plays(out of zone)
    Dozier 83gms 15errors (6 fielding) .964Fld Pct...-0.8UZR -1.5UZR/150gms 39OOZ plays
    OK, what was Dozier's defense like through 24 games?

    Florimon is passing the eyeball test with me. One of his errors was a routine grounder that took a bad bounce (but he should have fielded it), could just be rookie nerves. Also, Florimon has made one error in the past 10 games. I have seen him make plays I can't imagine Dozier making.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23991597&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tc id=vpp_copy_23991597&v=3

    Last edited by powrwrap; 09-12-2012 at 05:44 PM.
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    May we have another choice?
    Sign Nick Punto in the offseason?

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Well it makes sense for Florimon to be at SS and Dozier at 2B this September to see how that works. Oh wait a minute. They somehow didn't make that obvious decision.

  14. #14
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Well it makes sense for Florimon to be at SS and Dozier at 2B this September to see how that works. Oh wait a minute. They somehow didn't make that obvious decision.
    They needed Dozier to help Slama with his pickoff move to 2nd.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  15. #15
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Dozier needs to prove to himself that he can hit at the AAA level. Then he can be brought back up. A deal is made to send Nishi back to Japan. That leaves us with Florimon, Escobar & Carroll to play middle infield. Plouffe will be OK at 3rd until Sano is ready for the "Show". The rest of the Twins hitters are solid.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Well it makes sense for Florimon to be at SS and Dozier at 2B this September to see how that works. Oh wait a minute. They somehow didn't make that obvious decision.
    Dozier's going to need to hit I think before he gets a shot to start again. Needs in the middle infield are high, and unless one of these guys is going to hit better in the majors than he has in the minors, none should be taken as a serious solution.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Guess its the battle for the starting SS spot next year.
    Think many people would be surprised to find out that Florimon is actually 6months older than Dozier....which has been one of Brian's main detractions from fans/media.

    Twins would lead you to believe that Florimon is a slick fielding/smooth MLB style SS but his defense has statistically been far worse in his 24gms than Dozier was in his 83gms @ SS.
    Pedro 24gms 5 errors (3 fielding) .954 Fld Pct....-2.2UZR -21.4UZR/150gms 15 OOZ plays(out of zone)
    Dozier 83gms 15errors (6 fielding) .964Fld Pct...-0.8UZR -1.5UZR/150gms 39OOZ plays

    Dozier .234/.271/.332 33runs 6HR 33RBI 9/11sb 17.1K% 4.7bb%
    Pedro .253/.314/.367 12runs 0HR 5RBI 2/2sb 18.4K% 8.0bb%

    Florimon has never put up an offensive year close to what Dozier has done in the minors leading most to believe Dozier has far more upside with the bat

    Maybe Im wrong, but I think many people are very happy with Florimon's performance but it has been only as equal or even below to what Dozier was doin, & he doesnt have much to improve on offensively
    The additional issues with Dozier and the hints from the front office regarding Dozier are about not being in the right position before the play starts and some other issues that involved decision making and not stats. Not sure how big of a deal these are, but my guess is that considering Gardy was pretty high on him, I'd bet that they played just as big a role as his lack of hitting (though hitting below .200 in AAA certainly didn't help). That's speculation on my part, but I don't think he gets called back up unless he starts hitting well, clears up those issues or in the case of injuries.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Guess its the battle for the starting SS spot next year.
    Think many people would be surprised to find out that Florimon is actually 6months older than Dozier....which has been one of Brian's main detractions from fans/media.

    Twins would lead you to believe that Florimon is a slick fielding/smooth MLB style SS but his defense has statistically been far worse in his 24gms than Dozier was in his 83gms @ SS.
    Pedro 24gms 5 errors (3 fielding) .954 Fld Pct....-2.2UZR -21.4UZR/150gms 15 OOZ plays(out of zone)
    Dozier 83gms 15errors (6 fielding) .964Fld Pct...-0.8UZR -1.5UZR/150gms 39OOZ plays

    Dozier .234/.271/.332 33runs 6HR 33RBI 9/11sb 17.1K% 4.7bb%
    Pedro .253/.314/.367 12runs 0HR 5RBI 2/2sb 18.4K% 8.0bb%

    Florimon has never put up an offensive year close to what Dozier has done in the minors leading most to believe Dozier has far more upside with the bat

    Maybe Im wrong, but I think many people are very happy with Florimon's performance but it has been only as equal or even below to what Dozier was doin, & he doesnt have much to improve on offensively
    The additional issues with Dozier and the hints from the front office regarding Dozier are about not being in the right position before the play starts and some other issues that involved decision making and not stats. Not sure how big of a deal these are, but my guess is that considering Gardy was pretty high on him, I'd bet that they played just as big a role as his lack of hitting (though hitting below .200 in AAA certainly didn't help). That's speculation on my part, but I don't think he gets called back up unless he starts hitting well, clears up those issues or in the case of injuries.
    "(though hitting below .200 in AAA certainly didn't help) "

    I agree with your overall assessment, but, to be fair, at AAA he did bat .276 with an OPS of .710 before his call-up, coming off of a terrific 2011 year in AA/A+ (BA .320/OPS .890). Culminating with his last disastrous media interview, Dozier clearly had crumbled under the pressures of the season-long spotlight- on a struggling team that has made a convenient habit of finding convenient scapegoats when the timing was right- it was not surprising that his struggles continued late-season in Roc.

    As I also speculated- and am in agreement with you, he has a long road back. It's possible that they put him up next spring as "competition" with Plouffe for the 3B job, with the intention of giving him the SS job again at a depleted Rochester infield. (The logical move is trying him out at the lower-pressure job at 2B, but it appears that the Twins aren't looking in that direction).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    "(though hitting below .200 in AAA certainly didn't help) "

    I agree with your overall assessment, but, to be fair, at AAA he did bat .276 with an OPS of .710 before his call-up, coming off of a terrific 2011 year in AA/A+ (BA .320/OPS .890). Culminating with his last disastrous media interview, Dozier clearly had crumbled under the pressures of the season-long spotlight- on a struggling team that has made a convenient habit of finding convenient scapegoats when the timing was right- it was not surprising that his struggles continued late-season in Roc.

    As I also speculated- and am in agreement with you, he has a long road back. It's possible that they put him up next spring as "competition" with Plouffe for the 3B job, with the intention of giving him the SS job again at a depleted Rochester infield. (The logical move is trying him out at the lower-pressure job at 2B, but it appears that the Twins aren't looking in that direction).
    This may be splitting hairs, but his earlier higher average in AAA was due to an amazing first two weeks. He was in the start of the slump when called up.

    I've also pointed out elsewhere, as have others that it's very dangerous to put too much stock in those A+/AA numbers as he was among the oldest players in those minor leagues. .As I've said, he has yet to show sustained success at a "developmentally appropriate" level.

    So, imo, his overall struggles both at AAA and the majors are not all that surprising, but I definitely agree that the Twins handled him extremely poorly.

    I don't think they've scapegoated him, but for an organization that is usually patient with players in the minor leagues, and even if they weren't his original call-up wasn't warranted or needed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    "(though hitting below .200 in AAA certainly didn't help) "

    I agree with your overall assessment, but, to be fair, at AAA he did bat .276 with an OPS of .710 before his call-up, coming off of a terrific 2011 year in AA/A+ (BA .320/OPS .890). Culminating with his last disastrous media interview, Dozier clearly had crumbled under the pressures of the season-long spotlight- on a struggling team that has made a convenient habit of finding convenient scapegoats when the timing was right- it was not surprising that his struggles continued late-season in Roc.

    As I also speculated- and am in agreement with you, he has a long road back. It's possible that they put him up next spring as "competition" with Plouffe for the 3B job, with the intention of giving him the SS job again at a depleted Rochester infield. (The logical move is trying him out at the lower-pressure job at 2B, but it appears that the Twins aren't looking in that direction).
    This may be splitting hairs, but his earlier higher average in AAA was due to an amazing first two weeks. He was in the start of the slump when called up.

    I've also pointed out elsewhere, as have others that it's very dangerous to put too much stock in those A+/AA numbers as he was among the oldest players in those minor leagues. .As I've said, he has yet to show sustained success at a "developmentally appropriate" level.

    So, imo, his overall struggles both at AAA and the majors are not all that surprising, but I definitely agree that the Twins handled him extremely poorly.

    I don't think they've scapegoated him, but for an organization that is usually patient with players in the minor leagues, and even if they weren't his original call-up wasn't warranted or needed.
    In late-April, early-May, just before his call-up, Dozier batted .310/OPS .739 in his last 8 games, so it appears he was not in the start of a slump, but rather, was just coming out of his late-April slump quite nicely.

    Having said that, I agree that he has a long way to go to prove himself as an above-replacement level player. I think he has Nick Punto-type upside (for better or worse), if he gets past his well-documented mental and physical hurdles.

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