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Thread: Shipley: Ryan Discusses Slama

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Roster spots don't equate to innings or at bats. There's actually a limit to opportunity. I also don't buy the cheap-skate Twins meme. There's probably more to why Slama (and Dozier) isn't currently on the roster, but it's not a story the Twins are willing to tell.
    A team that has carried 13 pitchers for significant stretches of the season can sure as hell find some innings. Hell, you could lighten the load on Perkins and Burton down the stretch to help their arms.

    Besides.....what else is he doing for the next month exactly?

  2. #42
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    The guy doesn't have what it takes at this level. People care way to much about stats, real scouts watch the games, he had his chance and proved all the scouts right.
    When exactly did he get his chance? Are you talking about the 7 ML innings he has logged between '10 and '11? I guess sample size means nothing to you.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post

    I still think the bigger issue is playing time. I would call up Slama instead of Perdomo, but there really are only so many innings to go around. Makes little sense to call people up to sit on the bench for a month.
    On a team that spent large chunks of the year with an 8 man bullpen, and STILL managed to find reason to complain about the pen being "worn out" weekly--which team is now employing 6 starters--I think you can find some innings for a couple extra relievers. If nothing else, you save wear and tear on Burton, who they've been concerned about all year.

    This, like every other reason Ryan or anyone else has brought up, makes little sense if given even the slightest thought.
    Well, even with the 6 man rotation the Twins now have a 9 man bullpen without Slama, so I'm sure they are pretty much covered. Not sure there would be a ton of innings to be had even if they continue to protect Burton as much as they have the past couple of months.

    I don't want to argue too much because I agree that Slama should be up (instead of Perdomo). I just think a lack of available innings is a more logical explanation than cheapness.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Bacon View Post
    b) couldn't you call up like 13 more people if you wanted to? ?
    One could almost infer there's a, um...financial implication to the skimpy number of callups, no?

    But to believe that might be a factor, one would have to conclude the Twins are more interested in making good money than in making good baseball decisions.
    I think this accounts for the failure to make any waiver deals when there were plenty of pick-ups available at little cost- except the cost of absorbing the contract. This is yet more suggestive evidence that the decision was made internally sometime after the Marquis/Capps/Pavano/Baker fiascos became realities and followed by Liriano's dump-off trade, that absolutely no more money was to be added to the 2012 payroll.
    Why would a team that is not contending want to take on additional salary at the waiver deadline?

    I still think the bigger issue is playing time. I would call up Slama instead of Perdomo, but there really are only so many innings to go around. Makes little sense to call people up to sit on the bench for a month.
    In case you haven't noticed, the team is utterly bereft of proven MLB SP talent. It's hard to envision they can have any semblance of one in 2013 with only the offseason to get it done. There were guys available in July and especially August for practically only the contract that could eat 200 innings next year standing on their head.
    Really? There were guys available for only their contracts that will easily pitch 200 innings next year? Please, please enlighten me on who these pitchers might be.
    Papers...business papers.

  5. #45
    For a game like Tuesday, nice to have a big roster/ Question regarding Slama, if not going to use him for what he really is, why have him close games at Rochester...why not just use him as a 7th inning guy and give those important innings to supposed guys you think might help the team. Have him up here. See if he has worked on stuff. Maybe he is the closer in 2013.....and Perk can remain as setup with Burton.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Geez la weez do you guys love Slama. The guy is down in Mexico, probably Cabo, working out getting ready for winter ball. All everyone can do is go crazy about how he deserves at most a 5 inning september call-up. If the other guy, peridimo is poopie, we don't bring him back next year. Slama IS coming back. Do we know that we are not "shutting" him down after the injury he had that kept him sidelined for half the summer?

  7. #47
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    So Ryan's argument is that calling up a reliever with a 1.99 career ERA who has the highest strikeout rate in his entire league would be a slight to the thoroughly mediocre Luis Perdomo and... Esmerling Vasquez? How is Vasquez even related to this discussion? He's a starter.

    These excuses just don't hold water. It's very possible that when Ryan said "he'll get his chance" he meant with another organization, because I have a hard time seeing how 29 teams pass on the chance to nab him for free in the Rule 5 now that he's healthy.

  8. #48
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Well, even with the 6 man rotation the Twins now have a 9 man bullpen without Slama, so I'm sure they are pretty much covered. Not sure there would be a ton of innings to be had even if they continue to protect Burton as much as they have the past couple of months.

    I don't want to argue too much because I agree that Slama should be up (instead of Perdomo). I just think a lack of available innings is a more logical explanation than cheapness.
    The funny thing is that when they called up Perdomo the number one thing they said they liked about him is that he has a "rubber arm." How is that a meaningful benefit when you have 9 relievers?

  9. #49
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    They're perfectly free to give less innings to Swarzak if they wanted to give Slama an opportunity. It's really inexcusable not to give this guy a shot. We'll see Blackburn again before we see Slama.

  10. #50
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Roster spots don't equate to innings or at bats. There's actually a limit to opportunity. I also don't buy the cheap-skate Twins meme. There's probably more to why Slama (and Dozier) isn't currently on the roster, but it's not a story the Twins are willing to tell.
    A team that has carried 13 pitchers for significant stretches of the season can sure as hell find some innings. Hell, you could lighten the load on Perkins and Burton down the stretch to help their arms.

    Besides.....what else is he doing for the next month exactly?
    I was hinting that the Twins have other problems with Slama that we don't know about; whatever they are, and until the Twins choose to reveal them, it will seem unreasonable that he hasn't been promoted.

    This isn't anything new with the Twins. I think JR's comment about the "stat-line" gives us a clue about what the Twins think about non-stat Slama.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutterheart View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I'm shocked that the free Slama crowd didn't appreciate Ryan's reasoning.
    When his reasoning is based on fallacies, I think its more shocking that anyone WOULD appreciate his reasoning
    I agree. The reasoning is barbarically stupid. This team didn't even invite Slama to ST this year, instead hoping on Matt Maloney and Jeff Gray (one wonders how this would have played out if Maloney hadn't been brutally awful but merely Gray-esque this year . . . no Tyler Robertson?). AGAIN. Terry Ryan seems to take a dig at people who look at stats. Imagine looking at stats to evaluate a player! Slama has not been "good" . . . he has been totally dominant this year.

    The problem is not the particulars of the Slama situation. It is that this team has a mindset of evaluation that is in the 20th century. You don't sign Nick Blackburn to a multi-year deal while he is in arbitration unless you are a poor evaluator. You don't trot out Jeff Gray again and again unless you are a poor evaluator. You don't keep Slama in AAA unless you are a poor evaluator. The Twins CLEARLY want him to go away because they don't want to give him the chance to demonstrate how damn foolish they have been.

    It is not Slama's case alone and it is not the collection of cases . . . it is the reasoning (or lack thereof) that is the problem.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    So Ryan's argument is that calling up a reliever with a 1.99 career ERA who has the highest strikeout rate in his entire league would be a slight to the thoroughly mediocre Luis Perdomo and... Esmerling Vasquez? How is Vasquez even related to this discussion? He's a starter.

    These excuses just don't hold water. It's very possible that when Ryan said "he'll get his chance" he meant with another organization, because I have a hard time seeing how 29 teams pass on the chance to nab him for free in the Rule 5 now that he's healthy.
    I stated this in another post, but the money quote from JR to me is the stat-line quip about Slama. There's more going on with how the Twins view Slama's place in the organization.

    My guess, Slama doesn't run through first base during bunting practice.

  13. #53
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    The guy doesn't have what it takes at this level. People care way to much about stats, real scouts watch the games, he had his chance and proved all the scouts right.
    7 innings. You are aware of how dominant he has been in AAA, right? Real scouts know that seeing-eye scouting and statistics should line up. Statistics are fairly objective, by the way. What some scout sees is subjective. You are aware of this difference, right?

  14. #54
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    It's September . . . limit the innings of Burton, Duensing (who they decided in some crazy idiotic fashion to start), and Perkins. Let other guys pitch. Guerra and Slama are obvious choices. It is not as thought there is AAA baseball going on right now.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    The guy doesn't have what it takes at this level. People care way to much about stats, real scouts watch the games, he had his chance and proved all the scouts right.
    7 innings. You are aware of how dominant he has been in AAA, right? Real scouts know that seeing-eye scouting and statistics should line up. Statistics are fairly objective, by the way. What some scout sees is subjective. You are aware of this difference, right?
    Nope, if Twins' scouts say he can't get it done, then he can't. Don't you know they've never been wrong?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Who cares, he will get his shot in 2013, bringing up everyone to be a part of a 10+ man bullpen isn't exactly a solution to get him a bunch of innings, is 4-5 IP in September really going to make some huge difference?

    Also yes, he is dominating AAA, but he is 28, and I'm sure the Twins know his stuff quite well, I know its beyond a SSS but in the majors he does have 7 walks in 7 innings, perhaps he just lacks big league stuff.

    Reminds me of another guy who "dominated" AAA who fans freaked out about "not given a chance" his name is Kevin Slowey and is currently posting a lightning hot 5.14 ERA in AAA for the Indians.

    Can Slama potentially be an asset in the majors? Sure, why not. But its more likely as a 6th/7th guy then a set up/closer type.
    Dave is risking the ire of the faithful. One would think the scouts know what pitches Slama does well and if they will work at the major league level. Perdoma may have the potential. They can find out for sure and resolve it this year. Slama can go to ST and prove if he has learned the guile of a DeVries to make what he has work.
    Rule 5 draft? Why risk even 25000 when there are plenty of similar arms out there.
    Last edited by old nurse; 09-05-2012 at 01:19 AM. Reason: oops

  17. #57
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Let's see,
    Scott Diamond was one of the first Pitchers cut in Spring Training. I guess, the Twins Brass were also right on that one.
    Last edited by Highabove; 09-05-2012 at 04:29 AM.

  18. #58
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Geez la weez do you guys love Slama. The guy is down in Mexico, probably Cabo, working out getting ready for winter ball. All everyone can do is go crazy about how he deserves at most a 5 inning september call-up. If the other guy, peridimo is poopie, we don't bring him back next year. Slama IS coming back. Do we know that we are not "shutting" him down after the injury he had that kept him sidelined for half the summer?
    So a five inning september call-up won't tell us anything about Slama, but will tell us if "peridimo" is poopie.

    BTW, the injury he suffered was a broken leg, not an arm or shoulder issue. You don't shut people down for a broken leg after it's healed and he's back pitching again.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Mr. Ed's Avatar
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    Not enough locker space for the veterans of the team.
    Not enough room on the plane.

    Flimsy reasons from TR. Appreciate the Press did ask it. Better than LEN just giving his own take.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Bacon View Post
    b) couldn't you call up like 13 more people if you wanted to? ?
    One could almost infer there's a, um...financial implication to the skimpy number of callups, no?

    But to believe that might be a factor, one would have to conclude the Twins are more interested in making good money than in making good baseball decisions.
    I think this accounts for the failure to make any waiver deals when there were plenty of pick-ups available at little cost- except the cost of absorbing the contract. This is yet more suggestive evidence that the decision was made internally sometime after the Marquis/Capps/Pavano/Baker fiascos became realities and followed by Liriano's dump-off trade, that absolutely no more money was to be added to the 2012 payroll.
    Why would a team that is not contending want to take on additional salary at the waiver deadline?
    I still think the bigger issue is playing time. I would call up Slama instead of Perdomo, but there really are only so many innings to go around. Makes little sense to call people up to sit on the bench for a month.
    In case you haven't noticed, the team is utterly bereft of proven MLB SP talent. It's hard to envision they can have any semblance of one in 2013 with only the offseason to get it done. There were guys available in July and especially August for practically only the contract that could eat 200 innings next year standing on their head.
    Really? There were guys available for only their contracts that will easily pitch 200 innings next year? Please, please enlighten me on who these pitchers might be.
    I didn't say "only", you did, the "practically" I used considers the small time left in the season on outright claims or trades for prospects at depth or trades based on salary relief or mutual salary-cancellation deals, which were potentially available all over the place, up to, and apparently including potential deals with the Dodgers and Red Sox. A guy like Lucas Harrell was available for nothing in late August 2011 and FAs on short-term deals like Edwin Jackson, Paul Maholm and Eric Bedard were doable in the off-season if the Twins were intrepid enough to take some intiative. Players available in all price ranges that could potentially fulfill the criteria I describe this season (and possibly could have been included in even a bigger trade) include:

    1) Jason Vargas
    2) Jon Lester
    3) Randy Wolf
    4) Ricky Romero (Blue Jays apparently eager to package him in trade w/ prospects for Morneau)
    5) Joe Saunders
    6) Justin Masterson
    7) Ricky Nolasco
    8) Jeremy Guthrie (Traded for J Sanchez, why not a deal involving Liriano?)
    9) Chris Schwinden (Big MiL innings eater, could be had for nothing)
    10) Ted Lilly
    11) Travis Blackley (A's got him for nothing, big MiL innings eater)
    12) Felix Doubront (Red Sox waiver wire, part of Morneau/Mauer deal w/ Lester?)
    13) Elinson Volquez
    14) Allen Webster (Big MiL innings eater, part of LA Morneau deal?)
    15) Josh Beckett
    Last edited by jokin; 09-05-2012 at 01:27 PM.

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