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Thread: Pavano Done

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    I would hope we're not doing that, but at the same time if we're paying a guy several million dollars a year to play, we have the right to ask the player to assist in whatever it takes to get them back healthy and on the field. Certainly we can try and work with him and fine a way to get the medical information we need that accomodates his phobia, and it sounds like Span is trying to be cooperative, but I can understand the fan's frustrations when a story like this gets out.
    The next step would be for the doctors to put him under, but if that is the case typically they need a days lead time or so.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.

  3. #63
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.
    They are pretty rare, and I'm sure Span didn't think it would be an issue going into the MRI.
    Since they are so rare (the stand up) it wouldn't be shocking if they weren't able to get him to one the same day.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.
    They are pretty rare, and I'm sure Span didn't think it would be an issue going into the MRI.
    Since they are so rare (the stand up) it wouldn't be shocking if they weren't able to get him to one the same day.
    Except that the phobia issue likely came up during his first MRI on Monday.

  5. #65
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.
    They are pretty rare, and I'm sure Span didn't think it would be an issue going into the MRI.
    Since they are so rare (the stand up) it wouldn't be shocking if they weren't able to get him to one the same day.
    Except that the phobia issue likely came up during his first MRI on Monday.
    Why does it matter though? If he is to sore/injured to play, then he is to sore/injured to play.

  6. #66
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsMusings View Post
    Shipley's story has a bit more detail. From one of Pavano's quotes it sounds like there was more than one injury and he and the trainer did get the shoulder rehabbed, but still had pain. Does anybody remember when Pavano might have been hit on the arm by a come-backer causing the bruise? In spring training?
    I for one can't.

    In defense of the medical staff, the Twins have suffered 2 unique injuries which the staff is not likely to mistake ever again.

    First is Moon Shot Scott.
    Initial diagnosis: Flexor tendon
    Final diagnosis: Ulnar Collateral Ligament. Very close proximity, these two.

    Its easy to image Moon coming to the doctors, saying "its sore here" and pointing to his elbow just off the UCL. Maybe, maybe not, did that happen however. More investigation is needed certainly.

    Second is Pava no-no Mutombo. Obviously the "its hurts here" arrow pointed particularly high on the Humerus bone, very close if not exactly on the shoulder. Now if you were a doctor, and would you suspect a bruised bone or a much more common, shoulder injury? I think at 36 and following two consecutive 220+ IP seasons, the ligaments are more suspect, not the bones.

    In conclusion, maybe some of you expect the Twins medical staff to be Dr. House for their players. I think they have encountered a strange and unlikely string of pitcher injuries that caused mis-diagnoses which they are unlikely to repeat.

  7. #67
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    It should be noted yet again, that even the 2nd opinion doctor didn't know Baker needed Tommy John surgery until they actually cut the arm open.

  8. #68
    Member Rookie denarded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    One other item to think about. At one point in July, there were 20 pitchers on the DL from Beloit-up to the Major league Club.

    Is this Organization capable of keeping their Arms healthy??
    have you compared that to the other mlb teams?
    Wikipedia is for suckers

  9. #69
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denarded View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    One other item to think about. At one point in July, there were 20 pitchers on the DL from Beloit-up to the Major league Club.

    Is this Organization capable of keeping their Arms healthy??
    have you compared that to the other mlb teams?
    Yes I have, Start with the rest of the Division.
    Last edited by Highabove; 08-21-2012 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #70
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    If you question that the medical staff can be this bad because no team would stick with such ineffective garbage for this long to their own detriment: I offer Nick Blackburn as a rebuttal.

  11. #71
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    I don't know that you can chalk up Baker as a misdiagnosis because of the Tommy John surgery, they didn't decide to do that until they opened him up. I'm curious as to whether most veteran pitchers look like they could use a new ligament when you get in there.

  12. #72
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.
    And what does that have to do with my statement again?

  13. #73
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    I don't know that you can chalk up Baker as a misdiagnosis because of the Tommy John surgery, they didn't decide to do that until they opened him up. I'm curious as to whether most veteran pitchers look like they could use a new ligament when you get in there.
    Given the stress put on the arm during pitching, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if most vets "needed" TJ surgery.

  14. #74
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.
    They are pretty rare, and I'm sure Span didn't think it would be an issue going into the MRI.
    Since they are so rare (the stand up) it wouldn't be shocking if they weren't able to get him to one the same day.
    Except that the phobia issue likely came up during his first MRI on Monday.
    Which is probably why he had the Valium on hand. Given his concussion problems, this isn't Span's first go-round in the MRI machine. When it comes to a phobia, some days are probably better than others (and the meds work better). This was probably just one of the bad days. I'm not going to blame a guy for having a crippling phobia of an MRI machine. While I've never had an MRI, I've heard plenty of horror stories from people who don't like enclosed spaces. From what I know of the situation, it's not terribly uncommon.

  15. #75
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by denarded View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    One other item to think about. At one point in July, there were 20 pitchers on the DL from Beloit-up to the Major league Club.

    Is this Organization capable of keeping their Arms healthy??
    have you compared that to the other mlb teams?
    Yes I have, Start with the rest of the Division.
    The Royals have had 6 guys get TJS this season.

    Your move.

  16. #76
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.

    There are options here, and typically hospitals have both. My brother in law is an MRI tech and has operated both types of units. Typically the open MRI is for those who cannot fit into a standard MRI (which I'll admit is a bit of an experience even for someone who is mildy claustrophobic). I'm trying to figure out why they just didn't let him use the open...

    that said, standup/open MRI's exist, but they aren't exactly common. My brother in law got to operate one in Fort Wayne, IN... There's only 1 in the entire city, and it was brand new.

  17. #77
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Typically the open MRI is for those who cannot fit into a standard MRI (which I'll admit is a bit of an experience even for someone who is mildy claustrophobic). I'm trying to figure out why they just didn't let him use the open...
    It was on the DL.

    Somebody had to say it.

  18. #78
    Senior Member Double-A chuchadoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation for a professional athlete to get the necessary diagnostics done on an injury. Athletes can disagree with their team about the course of treatment, not about getting diagnostic work done when said player has been wasting a spot on the roster for a week. Span is not dangling from the top of the IDS Center washing windows or being asked to climb into a box full of snakes. He's being asked to have a very common, safe test done to determine if the Twins should continue to waste another bench spot. What if Plouffe wakes up tomorrow and has a newly manifested aerophobia? I guess we should pat him on the back and say "It's ok, big guy. You can just play the home games.".

  19. #79
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuchadoro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation for a professional athlete to get the necessary diagnostics done on an injury. Athletes can disagree with their team about the course of treatment, not about getting diagnostic work done when said player has been wasting a spot on the roster for a week. Span is not dangling from the top of the IDS Center washing windows or being asked to climb into a box full of snakes. He's being asked to have a very common, safe test done to determine if the Twins should continue to waste another bench spot. What if Plouffe wakes up tomorrow and has a newly manifested aerophobia? I guess we should pat him on the back and say "It's ok, big guy. You can just play the home games.".
    Phobia: phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, [I]Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is, when used in the context of clinical psychology, a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational. In the event the phobia cannot be avoided entirely the sufferer will endure the situation or object with markeddistress and significant interference in social or occupational activities.
    It's not a matter of just "bucking up" and getting through it. Phobias are real mental issues based on an irrational fear of something. Span has had countless MRIs in the past yet we've never heard of this happening so I'm not going to chalk this up to "not trying" or just "not wanting to do something". He apparently tried to calm himself down and it didn't work. I'm not going to fault the guy for that.

  20. #80
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So now we're mocking guys for having phobias? Really?
    There are open stand up MRI'S

    Google it.

    There are options here, and typically hospitals have both. My brother in law is an MRI tech and has operated both types of units. Typically the open MRI is for those who cannot fit into a standard MRI (which I'll admit is a bit of an experience even for someone who is mildy claustrophobic). I'm trying to figure out why they just didn't let him use the open...

    that said, standup/open MRI's exist, but they aren't exactly common. My brother in law got to operate one in Fort Wayne, IN... There's only 1 in the entire city, and it was brand new.
    Yup, Standup MRI's are very rare. "Open" MRI's are more common, but still somewhat rare. And even those are pretty intense for people with even mild claustrophobic issues.

    It has nothing to do with "toughing" it out or anything of that nature, some people just can't deal with that ****.

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