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Thread: Article: Starting in September

  1. #1
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Article: Starting in September


  2. #2
    Senior Member Triple-A TwinsGuy55422's Avatar
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    I would say the 6-man rotation sounds good. I want to see as much of these guys as possible and see what we have going forward. I really hope that Hendriks can figure things out be I think he has the tools to be reliable starter for several years. Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about Vasquez but I would really like to see what he can do if given an opportunity. I should be an interesting month to say the least.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    I like the plan Seth but I do disagree on Manship being one of the guys to start. I think we've seen enough in 4 years to tell us that he can't get major league batters out consistently. The guy I do want to see is Pedro Hernandez. He's 23.. Shown improvement every year he's been in pro ball and he's been outstanding his last 2 starts for Rochester. The experience should be good for him cause I have a feeling he has a good chance to be part of the twins' future in some capacity.

    I do want to mention that I really hope PJ gets 100% before he returns. People forget how outstanding he was early on this year. Watching him pitch.. he was never the same after his complete game against the white sox.. and I think that's where he hurt his shoulder. His next start he walked 5 batters when he had walked 5 his previous 3 starts combined in 21 innings.. And it just got worse from there. I remember wondering why his velocity was down to 84-86 in his last few starts before he admitted he was hurt. I don't blame the guy.. He finally got his shot and he wanted to pitch. But I hope this time he makes sure he's 100% so we can see him at his best. I want to see him have a shot at a rotation spot next year. I think he can be a solid #5

  4. #4
    I agree that they should give Manship a chance to start. He's been excellent as a starter, not very good as a reliever. Give him 5 or 6 starts in September and let's see what he can do.

  5. #5
    Going to six starters makes perfect sense. The Twins need to find out now what they have for next year or they will spend the first ahlf of next year doing the same thing. I disagree on one thing, though - you need to put Duensing out there every 6th day and find out if he can be a back end starter next year. Put him in instead of Manship. He's had his shots and he just isn't very good. The key is to get 4 of the following - Walters, Vasquez, DeVries, Hendricks and Deduno - out there as much as you can because we're really choosing between those four and maybe Gibson for two or three spots next year in a rotation that will include Baker and Diamond for sure and maybe Duensing. Whoever doesn't make it can be long relief and/or stashed at Rocheseter to replace anyone that fails or gets hurt, something you know will happen.

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I like the plan, but I think Manship is as good as gone next year, he just doesn't strike me as someone who will be an asset to a major league bullpen or rotation.

    If Hendriks steps up, man that would be huge! At least we could go into next season with the thought that Diamond, Hendriks and Gibson could give us 3/5ths of a decent rotation.

    Color me intrigued when it comes to Vasquez, his walk rate has been tolerable this year.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Mr. Ed's Avatar
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    Manship? Really? Nick Blackburn PT 2

    Has been a tough year in the bigs. I don't think the Twins need to use innings to determine him as a viable starter. They already have enough 5/6/7 starters in the rotation without adding another.

  8. #8
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I like the plan, but I think Manship is as good as gone next year, he just doesn't strike me as someone who will be an asset to a major league bullpen or rotation.
    Manship? Really? Nick Blackburn PT 2
    Two things... I guess I don't understand why people are so down on Manship when 1.) he's been very good as a starter in AAA yet only has 5 big league starts (4 of them were 4 seasons ago), and 2.) he's had such spotty time with the Twins over that time.

    You may be right. This may be the end of the line, but if I were the Twins, I'd want to know that I gave a guy with a 91 mph FB, a very good CB, a very good SL and a good Change up a decent chance.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    There are thousands of very good Triple A pitchers over the years that do not have what it take for the majors. Jeff Manship I feel falls into this group. He does not have the stuff to put good hitters away. He will do fine against light hitting lineups or possible the National League(read Marquis). The very good hitting clubs in the American league foul off the pitchers pitches and hit the mistakes. The lower ranking clubs with good pitching all have pitchers with stuff. Twins just have to get there and not be sentamental about it

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I think Manships numbers this year in AAA are deceving, his 6.4/4.0 K/BB ratio indicates to me that his ERA should be much higher then 3.03, plus he has appeared in 49 major league games and hasn't looked good in that time, and is 27. Just not a whole lot of projection left, I guess he could be a stop gap #5 guy, but the Twins have plenty of those at this point.

  11. #11
    I picture that Swarzak could be on-the-line depending on arbitration. His likely successors are Manship or DeVries.

    We know what Duensing can do. Keep him in the bullpen.

    Rotation: Diamond, Deduno, DeVries, Manship, Hernandez, Walters, Hendriks -- get them all work at the beginning of a game.

    Let us see Guerra. Keep Slama around, please. Perdoma come back up. If you need to see Caleb, do so.

    On the bullpen bubble: Guitererz, Oliveros.

    Let Pavano and Capps walk.

  12. #12
    I hate the idea of a SIX man rotation. I like the concept of giving tryouts in Sept.--the solution. Shut Diamond down--he is going to be our number 1 or number 2 guy next year. He doesnt need a tryout.

    Go with Duensing (lets see if with regular starts he can be like last night), Deduno (I like him with his effectiv wildness), DeVries (we need to be sure), Walters (if he is healthy--that means adding him back to roster) and Hendricks. Manship, Hernandez and the rest get there shot in traning camp.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Hi Seth,
    I like where you are going with this. My only disagreement is with Duensing. I believe if he is allowed to continue to start he will be an average to slightly above average starter again next year (similar to 2010).

  14. #14
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I don't really see the point of a six man rotation when they can start limiting Diamond's innings through September. The guy has nothing left to prove in a lost season. Let him slide out of the rotation gracefully and prepare for 2013.

  15. #15
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I don't really see the point of a six man rotation when they can start limiting Diamond's innings through September. The guy has nothing left to prove in a lost season. Let him slide out of the rotation gracefully and prepare for 2013.
    I agree. Why not let Diamond rest for next year and leave more room for others to prove themselves?

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I think Duensing needs to be in the pen for all of next season.
    For better or worse Perkins will be our main closer heading into next season, Duensing needs to be our LOOGY who can come in in the 7th/8th to help supplement Burton.

    Though to be honest, I would like them to look into doing a closer platoon with Burton and Perkins.

  17. #17
    Let Diamond pitch up near the recommended max innings, using Duensing as his replacement in a 5 man rotation. I don't see why we need to see more of Duensing as a starter for any reason. With strategic use of Diamond and Duensing, we'd need only a 5 man rotation, and we can get a bit more of a look at the others whom we need to test out. But the general thrust of the Seth's plan is spot on.

  18. #18
    OK - I'm confused on the Nishi-Blackburn thing - please straighten me out -

    The Twins did not DFA, them nor did they option them, but they DID "outright" them. I get that outrighting them takes them off of the 40 man, and uses an option, where DFA does not use an option. Why is it termed in this fashion? Is it meant to further send a message to the two of them, that sorta goes like - we don't want you here either now, or never.

    Thanks - and I'll hang up and listen . . .

  19. #19
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    I think a lot of people are living in the moment from the win vs the A's last night on Duensing being a viable starter. Prior to last night he had given up 32 runs in 38.1 innings as a starter. He has a 5.31 K/9 ratio, isn't a ground ball pitcher, and still struggles to get RH batters out. He is very good out of the pen in short stints however and does have value.

    Personally I think we can cash in that value this offseason. Especially if we feel Robertson can step into his role. Seems to me a package of Denard Span, Brian Duensing, Alex Burnett for James Shields makes sense. Rays won't have a CF next year with Upton leaving and they have 4 veteran relievers that are free agents: Rodney, Peralta, Farnsworth, and Howell. They get 3 big league players with 3 years of control each and we get the ace we're looking for. We would have him under control for 2 years/21 million

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltwedt View Post
    OK - I'm confused on the Nishi-Blackburn thing - please straighten me out -

    The Twins did not DFA, them nor did they option them, but they DID "outright" them. I get that outrighting them takes them off of the 40 man, and uses an option, where DFA does not use an option. Why is it termed in this fashion? Is it meant to further send a message to the two of them, that sorta goes like - we don't want you here either now, or never.

    Thanks - and I'll hang up and listen . . .
    Actually neither method uses an option. An option is used when a player IS on the 40-man roster. The player is sent on OPTIONAL assignment to the minor leagues.

    A player is usually DFA'd when he hasn't cleared waivers yet.

    When they "outright" a player it means they have cleared waivers.

    Also, Thrylos mentioned that there 4 types of waivers. And the outright waivers would get them out from under Blackburn's contract if he would refuse the assignment.

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