Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: What Are The Twins Worth In Light Of Padres Sale?

  1. #1
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
    Posts
    2,447
    Twitter
    @twinsgeek
    Like
    1
    Liked 164 Times in 96 Posts
    Blog Entries
    241

    What Are The Twins Worth In Light Of Padres Sale?

    MLB just approved a sale of the San Diego Padres for $800M. The Padres were valued by Forbes this year at $458M, good for 20th in MLB.

    #14 was your Minnesota Twins at a valuation of $510M. (Here are all the valuations by Forbes.)

    Are the Twins really worth close to $900M? Just a couple of data points to keep in mind...
    1. Pohlad bought the team in 1984 for $40M
    2. In 2001, during the whole contraction mess, he was reportedly going to sell them for $150M.

  2. #2
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
    Posts
    6,522
    Twitter
    @sethtweets
    Like
    68
    Liked 380 Times in 201 Posts
    Blog Entries
    515
    My Minnesota Math tells me that $890,829,694 would be about right... not bad.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,297
    Like
    35
    Liked 134 Times in 82 Posts
    The Astros sold for 680M (including a 65M league change bonus) last winter and they only had a valuation of 549M so the MN math might not be perfect.

  4. #4
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
    Posts
    1,228
    Twitter
    @crarko
    Like
    156
    Liked 782 Times in 411 Posts
    Are you planning on making an offer?

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,743
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    Can someone explain why the sale price is so much higher/different than the appraisal (Forbes value)? Seller's market? What am I missing?
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,178
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    36
    Liked 446 Times in 273 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    I think that the Forbes' appraisals could be wrong in some cases

    The Twins really jumped up in value with Target Field. I wonder what a shrewd investment in commercial real estate or even Apple stock of $40M in 1984 would worth today?

    (Actually $40 million of Apple stock in 1984 at $3.30 per share worth about $7.8 billion today at $650 per share.)
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  7. #7
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    498
    Like
    2
    Liked 80 Times in 50 Posts
    There are differences between the franchise sales that make them difficult to compare directly. For instance, media deals, surrounding properties, the particulars of how the ballpark was financed, etc. The Twins are worth quite a bit, that much is certain. The taxpayers of Minnesota say, "you're welcome." Oh and, thanks for cutting payroll- nothing shows appreciation more.

  8. #8
    The relatively low valuation of the Twins TV deal certainly holds down the Twins value when comparing them to other markets. The Padres signed a new TV deal that brings in $60M/year compared to the Twins $29M. Target Field helps, but TV money is a bigger factor in valuations these days, I believe.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

  9. #9
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,759
    Like
    882
    Liked 859 Times in 553 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsArmChairGM_Jon View Post
    The relatively low valuation of the Twins TV deal certainly holds down the Twins value when comparing them to other markets. The Padres signed a new TV deal that brings in $60M/year compared to the Twins $29M. Target Field helps, but TV money is a bigger factor in valuations these days, I believe.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    That's what's so troubling about the Padres valuation. The media markets are virtually identical in population of their metro area (Twin Cities rank 16/ San Diego 17), but the Twins obviously have a much larger geographical area beyond their metro nexus that naturally follows the team versus the Padres, who are a distant 5th most followed team- in their own state. I would think the TV ratings would be at least as strong, if not much stronger, than the moribund Padres franchise (with ticket sales and attendance stronger, as well). Do the Padres make quite a bit on Spanish programming to Tijuana? Or is that Dodger/Angel territory?

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
    Posts
    1,116
    Like
    138
    Liked 198 Times in 97 Posts
    Maybe somebody who knows for sure can fill me in, but here's a possibility. The Twins signed their TV deal several years back, whereas the Padres just signed theirs recently.

    Media people have been coming around to the idea that the only thing in television that's safe from the proliferation of the DVR, Netflix, Hulu, etc. paradigm is live sports. Thus, the only way to ensure that people see your commercial is to place it in a sports game. Given that, TV deals for all sports have absolutely skyrocketed over the last few years. These days, it's become the sine qua non of professional sports.

    It could be that the Twins just have an outdated deal.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Triple-A kydoty's Avatar
    Posts
    272
    Like
    2
    Liked 90 Times in 36 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Can someone explain why the sale price is so much higher/different than the appraisal (Forbes value)? Seller's market? What am I missing?
    Highest bidder

    "Mediocre breaking balls are a gift from God." - Kirby Puckett

  12. #12
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,759
    Like
    882
    Liked 859 Times in 553 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    Maybe somebody who knows for sure can fill me in, but here's a possibility. The Twins signed their TV deal several years back, whereas the Padres just signed theirs recently.

    Media people have been coming around to the idea that the only thing in television that's safe from the proliferation of the DVR, Netflix, Hulu, etc. paradigm is live sports. Thus, the only way to ensure that people see your commercial is to place it in a sports game. Given that, TV deals for all sports have absolutely skyrocketed over the last few years. These days, it's become the sine qua non of professional sports.

    It could be that the Twins just have an outdated deal.
    Given the outdated philosophies about how to compete on the field, I guess the TV deal "shoe" fits just as well on this franchise. I've said it before, this ownership is sitting on a sleeping giant of revenue that they are unable/unwilling/incapable of realizing......if only they would just sell out to real baseball/marketing people like the O'Malleys.

  13. #13
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,759
    Like
    882
    Liked 859 Times in 553 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by kydoty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Can someone explain why the sale price is so much higher/different than the appraisal (Forbes value)? Seller's market? What am I missing?
    Highest bidder
    I think the Dodgers deal set and raised the bar significantly higher for everyone else.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,355
    Like
    1,313
    Liked 1,295 Times in 749 Posts
    Maybe somebody who knows for sure can fill me in, but here's a possibility. The Twins signed their TV deal several years back, whereas the Padres just signed theirs recently.

    Does anyone know for sure on the date? I was thinking that the TV deal was only extended sometime in 2011. I remember thinking that there'd be a nice influx of dollars annually and was disappointed to find out that it had already been renegotiated.
    Last edited by JB_Iowa; 08-18-2012 at 03:37 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Triple-A B Richard's Avatar
    Posts
    488
    Like
    15
    Liked 42 Times in 30 Posts
    Forbes estimates are often nowhere close to what the actual franchise is worth, namely because they don't have access to the kind of inside information needed to make an accurate valuation. To those on the inside, Forbes' numbers are just a big joke. No one takes them seriously. Valuations go far, far deeper than just fanbase size or geographic reach and often include the marketability of surrounding properties as well as the timing of the TV contract/lease agreement with for the stadium, if there is one. The Dodgers sold for $2B for these reasons, along with others.

    Sports franchises, unlike many other commodities, almost always inrease in value over time. This, along with their limited availability and allure, leads many prospective buyers to "overpay" for a franchise. It's all a crapshoot, but I'd speculate the Twins are worth a fair amount more than the Padres because of the quality of the Twins' market. I do believe the Padres aren't far off from the lowely Rays in terms of lacking fan avidity and brand loyalty. The Twins got hosed a little a bit in their last TV negotiation, but whenever that contract ends I'd expect the Twins to command more unless we are absolutely not competitive.

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
    Posts
    1,650
    Like
    314
    Liked 507 Times in 198 Posts
    Blog Entries
    34
    If the Padres organization owns their stadium and the land it rests upon, that has to be a significant factor in the price. Urban California v. Urban Minnesota property value is no contest. I figure the Twins price value is a little less.

  17. #17
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,759
    Like
    882
    Liked 859 Times in 553 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    If the Padres organization owns their stadium and the land it rests upon, that has to be a significant factor in the price. Urban California v. Urban Minnesota property value is no contest. I figure the Twins price value is a little less.
    The Padres are 30% owners with the City of San Diego owning the remainder, so not much leverage for the club, except for the ability and prvilege to pay annual property taxes.

  18. #18
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
    Posts
    2,447
    Twitter
    @twinsgeek
    Like
    1
    Liked 164 Times in 96 Posts
    Blog Entries
    241
    Re: TV Deal

    The Twins recently extended it, so it isn't the timing that's the problem. It's that SD (I think) now had two regional sports networks. Cox was the old one and Fox Sports San Diego is the new one. FSSD is also partly owned by the Padres.

    Remember when everyone was cranky about Victory Sports? That was being done to avoid this situation.

    However, all of that should be taken into account of the Forbes values.

  19. #19
    Let's just say that the Pohlads shouldn't complain about losing money...in the long run.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.