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Thread: Is Pavano Reprising "American Idle"?

  1. #1

    Is Pavano Reprising "American Idle"?

    When Carl Pavano was on the Yankees and was injured for years fans dubbed him "American Idle." Pavano has been on the DL since early June due to rotator cuff weakness. I'm guessing the rehabilitation for a weakened shoulder/rotator cuff is to strengthen it via exercises, eventually long toss, and finally pitching off a mound and then minor league rehab assignments. Pavano finally pitched in the minors last Thursday but his fastball could only reach the mid-80's. This got me to wondering:

    Does it seem like it's taken a long time to get to his minor league rehab pitching assignment? Two months and two weeks.

    Is he coasting on his guaranteed contract?
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Mr. Ed's Avatar
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    I think he's done. Arm worn out. Cut losses, tell him to go home.
    Gain nothing by him returning at this point.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    When you get older it takes longer to heal. Been there, done that.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    I think that Pavano has a serious shoulder issue that would require surgery and a year of rehab to fix, he will opt to not have it and will retire.
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    Considering how much and how well he's pitched for us the last few years, I don't think he's being lazy or not trying to come back. I think Thrylos is probably right, that there's a lot more wrong with his shoulder than indicated.

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    Senior Member Double-A
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    He had been a workhorse for us in the past, so I don't think he's coasting. I think he's hurt, and older, and probably done.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    There is zero reason for him to be holding back at this point, he is an impending free agent who most likely will have to settle for a minimum or minor league deal at this point. If he was able to pitch, he'd be back by now trying to drive up his own value.

    It was apparent early on that there was something wrong with his shoulder, always sucks to see a guys career end because of something like that, would like to see him get at least one more start as a Twin this year for the fans to give him a proper send off.

    Guy was a solid pitcher for us.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    There is zero reason for him to be holding back at this point, he is an impending free agent who most likely will have to settle for a minimum or minor league deal at this point. If he was able to pitch, he'd be back by now trying to drive up his own value.
    Yes, that makes sense. It just seems to be taking him a long time to get back into shape.
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  9. #9
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    There is zero reason for him to be holding back at this point, he is an impending free agent who most likely will have to settle for a minimum or minor league deal at this point. If he was able to pitch, he'd be back by now trying to drive up his own value.

    It was apparent early on that there was something wrong with his shoulder, always sucks to see a guys career end because of something like that, would like to see him get at least one more start as a Twin this year for the fans to give him a proper send off.

    Guy was a solid pitcher for us.

    While I agree there's no reason to think he's holding back, and he did have a nice season in 2010, I for one would be quite OK with never seeing Carl Pavano in a Twins uniform again.

    That 2 yr deal he got was one of Smith's bigger mistakes, and it should have been pretty obvious at the time.

  10. #10
    You can't fault a guy for aging. The amount of torque and strain on a pitcher's arm, elbow and shoulder is ridiculous. Add in the scar tissue from injuries in years past. It was more surprising to me that he made it back for a strong post-Yankees run than it is if his arm is past it's mlb shelflife. I would not have extended him, but then I don't know him. He seems like a good guy. Maybe I would've bought into the "stabilizing veteran presence" rationale if I were in Bill Smith's shoes.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I saw in other posts in this area, his pitch speed is down 2 - 3 MPH. That would indicate some arm issues. Sorry to see if he is done

  12. #12
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    While Yankees fans will always get irritated with the mention of Pavano, he had some really nice moments in a Twins uniform and have never heard of anyone in the Twins clubhouse say anything but great things about him. I always liked watching him pitch and felt that he was a tremendous competitor. Good luck to him in the future.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    That 2 yr deal he got was one of Smith's bigger mistakes, and it should have been pretty obvious at the time.
    Nah. Pavano had a terrific 2010 - 17-11, 221ip, 109 ERA+, 3.5 WAR. The Twins were a playoff team but pitching was considered a problem with Baker, Blackburn and Slowey all showing significant problems during the season. Most people thought Pavano would get a 3/30m type deal and the Twins would have to make do without him (lots of talk about Gibson at that point). The market never developed and the Nats offered him a 2yr deal. Pavano said he'd come back if Twins made a similar offer. He had a good season for us in 2011, actually threw more innings than in 2010. Nothing wrong with signing him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    That 2 yr deal he got was one of Smith's bigger mistakes, and it should have been pretty obvious at the time.
    Nah. Pavano had a terrific 2010 - 17-11, 221ip, 109 ERA+, 3.5 WAR. The Twins were a playoff team but pitching was considered a problem with Baker, Blackburn and Slowey all showing significant problems during the season. Most people thought Pavano would get a 3/30m type deal and the Twins would have to make do without him (lots of talk about Gibson at that point). The market never developed and the Nats offered him a 2yr deal. Pavano said he'd come back if Twins made a similar offer. He had a good season for us in 2011, actually threw more innings than in 2010. Nothing wrong with signing him.

    Agreed. Smith blundered into a lot of moves that were obvious at the time. The Blackburn contract raised a lot of eyebrows. We all knew Nishi was a huge risk. And trading Ramos for Capps was widely ripped as soon as it happened.

    But bringing back Pavano on a 2-year deal when it was widely believed he'd get 3 does it fall into that category.

  15. #15
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    That 2 yr deal he got was one of Smith's bigger mistakes, and it should have been pretty obvious at the time.
    Nah. Pavano had a terrific 2010 - 17-11, 221ip, 109 ERA+, 3.5 WAR. The Twins were a playoff team but pitching was considered a problem with Baker, Blackburn and Slowey all showing significant problems during the season. Most people thought Pavano would get a 3/30m type deal and the Twins would have to make do without him (lots of talk about Gibson at that point). The market never developed and the Nats offered him a 2yr deal. Pavano said he'd come back if Twins made a similar offer. He had a good season for us in 2011, actually threw more innings than in 2010. Nothing wrong with signing him.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. It was a bad signing IMO, and I said so at the time. I felt at the time he was living on borrowed time, and the chances he'd be worth $16.5M to be close to zero. As I recall on BYTO I said I could live with a 1 yr deal, 2 was stupid and 3 was ridiculously optomistic. There was also the lost draft pick compensation. Who turned out correct, me or Bill Smith?

    There was a reason the "3/30" talk from the fanbase turned out to be unrealistic...every other GM saw the same thing. In fact, Only one other TWO year offer was apparently on the table--from a team that's been a little anxious to throw money around the past few offseasons, and in the easier-to-pitch-in NL. It didn't take a genius to see this coming.

    BTW, I would hesitate to call 2011 a "good season." He did throw innings. He also led the league in hits allowed, all his peripherals bloated, and his velocity was down.

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