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Thread: Next Year's Needs Start With Outstanding Defensive SS and 2B

  1. #21
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    I can't help wondering what it might take to get Elvis Andrus away from Texas, since their hotshot prospect, Jurickson Profar, is a SS possibly (probably?) ready to play at the Major-league level next season. Andrus is only 23, and add his .295/.367/.399 slash line into our lineup from the SS position (plus he can steal a few bases) and things get really interesting. And his numbers are surprisingly a little better away from Texas stadium, .299/.369/.416 away versus .290/.364/.382 at home. So he's not exactly a product of that park. He plays pretty good defense as well, from what I recall. Then you move Dozier over to 2B where he hopefully stops throwing the ball over Morneau's head, and you're in pretty good shape.

    I doubt Andrus will come cheap. He's an inexpensive commodity that plays pretty decent defense and can post a .750 OPS at short. I'd love for him to be here, but he's going to cost something, and he won't be cheap.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Double-A BrentMpls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Casilla easily has been the best defender in the infield for the Twins. Yet this board is near-unanimous that he will/should be non-tendered after this season. Just sayin'.
    Not an everyday player

  3. #23
    Senior Member Double-A BrentMpls's Avatar
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    Needs start with pitching.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    BTW as far as this goes:

    Next Year's Needs Start With Outstanding Defensive SS and 2B
    no

    Starting Pitching all the way
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    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie111 View Post
    I know I'm gonna get ripped for this but with the exception of Willingham and sometimes Plouffe, Twins could have the best defense in baseball if they added two great gloves at SS and 2B. With so many pitch to contact starters this might make a greater impact to the overall team era for starters than adding an ace. Possibilities might be Yunel Escobar or Zack Cozart at SS and Darwin Barney or Jason Kipris at 2B.
    I know it isn't widely popular, but how about meeting next year's needs- by starting with hiring new blood in the coaching and consulting areas? I advocated this last year, after Pudge Rodriguez appeared to be done with the Nationals and his son being drafted by the Twins, I will again now. A HOF catcher with a Latin background, known for his tough as nails, fundamentally sound, student-of-the-game approach would be a terrific hire. Add to that, with a former-catcher/Latin-coach in place, there could be a huge addition by subtraction of Latin-whisperer needs from Drew Bew. A well-respected guy in general who could help shape up the young pitching staff, but who would also carry especially extra weight with the current, and up-and-coming Latin prospects.

    He's apparently available and waiting for his phone to ring and could certainly be easily motivated to sign on with Dereck in place in the organization, nice article:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/...ven-retirement
    Last edited by jokin; 08-09-2012 at 03:51 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Pudge would be a heck of a catch. He can't pitch, unfortunately, but could help some of these kids develop into good, sound, ballplayers.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    Pudge would be a heck of a catch. He can't pitch, unfortunately, but could help some of these kids develop into good, sound, ballplayers.
    I'd be hoping something close to Dave Duncan.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Carroll at SS and Dozier at 2B is the rather obvious defensive change that should happen RIGHT NOW, but Gardy . . .

  9. #29
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    Lets's hope Escobar is the real deal with the glove at shortstop. There is a place in baseball for elite defending shortstops batting ninth. I don't know if his performance will match his reputation.

  10. #30
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    I can't help wondering what it might take to get Elvis Andrus away from Texas, since their hotshot prospect, Jurickson Profar, is a SS possibly (probably?) ready to play at the Major-league level next season. Andrus is only 23, and add his .295/.367/.399 slash line into our lineup from the SS position (plus he can steal a few bases) and things get really interesting. And his numbers are surprisingly a little better away from Texas stadium, .299/.369/.416 away versus .290/.364/.382 at home. So he's not exactly a product of that park. He plays pretty good defense as well, from what I recall. Then you move Dozier over to 2B where he hopefully stops throwing the ball over Morneau's head, and you're in pretty good shape.
    I like this idea. Problem is that Andrus is only signed through 2014 and he's going to hit the market as a 26-year-old multiple time All-Star SS. So unless the Twins are ready to break the bank for him he's probably a two-year rental.

    Still pretty valuable, especially if you're in my camp and you believe the Twins could contend in the short-term (and if you're as sick as I am of the near-constant ineptitude at short), but you've got to be careful about what kind of assets you give up in that kind of situation.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Carroll at SS and Dozier at 2B is the rather obvious defensive change that should happen RIGHT NOW, but Gardy . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Lets's hope Escobar is the real deal with the glove at shortstop. There is a place in baseball for elite defending shortstops batting ninth. I don't know if his performance will match his reputation.
    Isn't the above arrangement for 2013 already about a 95% certainty?

    Elvis Andrus or Kelly Johnson? About .00001%.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I know it isn't widely popular, but how about meeting next year's needs- by starting with hiring new blood in the coaching and consulting areas? I advocated this last year, after Pudge Rodriguez appeared to be done with the Nationals and his son being drafted by the Twins, I will again now. A HOF catcher with a Latin background, known for his tough as nails, fundamentally sound, student-of-the-game approach would be a terrific hire. Add to that, with a former-catcher/Latin-coach in place, there could be a huge addition by subtraction of Latin-whisperer needs from Drew Bew. A well-respected guy in general who could help shape up the young pitching staff, but who would also carry especially extra weight with the current, and up-and-coming Latin prospects.

    He's apparently available and waiting for his phone to ring and could certainly be easily motivated to sign on with Dereck in place in the organization, nice article:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/...ven-retirement
    ---I think this whole 'Latin' thing gets overstated a little, just because 2 guys speak the same native language doesn't mean they are going to work well together.

    But I am in favor of new blood in this organization. When you have the same people around for too long and always stay loyal to insiders, staleness will eventually set in.

    If we were to go that route, Pudge would absolutely be worth a phone call, possibly even the first call.

    So would Jose Oquendo, who has been very popular and well respected as the third-base coach in St. Louis and interviewed for a few managerial jobs that he's been turned down for.

    Another guy I would call is Ken Oberkfell I became intrigued by him as a possible Gardy replacement after reading this article earlier in the year.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...82426&c_id=mlb

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    ---I think this whole 'Latin' thing gets overstated a little, just because 2 guys speak the same native language doesn't mean they are going to work well together.

    But I am in favor of new blood in this organization. When you have the same people around for too long and always stay loyal to insiders, staleness will eventually set in.

    If we were to go that route, Pudge would absolutely be worth a phone call, possibly even the first call.

    So would Jose Oquendo, who has been very popular and well respected as the third-base coach in St. Louis and interviewed for a few managerial jobs that he's been turned down for.

    Another guy I would call is Ken Oberkfell I became intrigued by him as a possible Gardy replacement after reading this article earlier in the year.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...82426&c_id=mlb
    Wow, great article, always liked him, and not one, but two Latins on the coaching staff, Jack? Love it! Especially as we prepare for the Sano, Rosario and Berrios era. I gotta think the "barrio" effect is a reality on many teams with Anglo/African-American-only coaching staffs. I'll scout around for some supporting evidence. I know it's an old story and things have changed some, but Clemente, Marichal and Cepeda felt pretty isolated and put-upon during their big league careers, and Ortiz and the Twins obviously had some communication problems.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I'd be hoping something close to Dave Duncan.
    That would be sweet. I also wonder if Terry Steinbach could be lured.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    That would be sweet. I also wonder if Terry Steinbach could be lured.
    If Pudge and Steiny could be talked into it, why not bring Tim Belcher out of retirement, too? Proven track record and knows the AL well.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    The Twins' next manager would be either Scotty or Gene Glynn with the other serving as a bench coach... Done deal
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  17. #37
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    Everyone is on the same page about the pitching needs, so let's "assume" for the purpooses of our discussion, that there is a possibility of changes in MI personnel.

    My gut tells me we get maybe one meaningful change in the MI. So, we either have to live with Dozier at SS, maybe at 2B if an outside fix at SS becomes available. But here's where I'm at: I can stomach either Casilla or Dozier as below-average stop-gaps for 2013. I get damn queasy thinking abouth both, and puke on my tennies thinking about Nishi, Escobar, Florimon, or Nishi playing every day. Do we get one meaningful upgrade in the infield over the winter? If we don't I'll be very dissilusioned.

  18. #38
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    Defense starts with spring training, Gardy better start practicing that.

  19. #39
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    All of the concerns about being equipped to manage a more diverse workforce are of course legitimate. But this whole notion that we need a wholesale change in the ethnic composite of the organization because of language barriers and cultural insensitivities contains its own elements of racial and cultural bigotry. Show me direct evidence of a negative effect.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Heck, just bring up Pedro Florimon and see what he's got. He's a great fielder, a switch hitter, and he's got a little pop in the bat. Oh, and he's cheap, compared to Casilla and Carroll.

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