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Thread: Article: It's All Good in the Outfield

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: It's All Good in the Outfield


  2. #2
    I'm not sure if I ever would have classified Span as an "elite" top of the order bat but i would definitely call him an above-average offensive and defensive player. The solid production from Revere and the strong seasons Hicks and Arcia are having in AA really have me feeling optimistic about the Twins future. I'm excited everyday to see what those two produce. Any chance either would be a candidate for a September call-up? I realize that the Rock Cats are in the playoff race and that Arcia started the year in Ft. Myers but should the get a debut in another lost year for the Twins?

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    How close are the Rock Cats to securing a playoff bid? I'd like to see Hicks get as much time as possible and play in AA post-season. And maybe avoid what happened to Benson last year (overmatched). Thoughts?

  4. #4
    The Rock Cats are in second place in their division in have a 1.5 game lead over the third place team (the top two teams in each division go to the playoffs).

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins best friend View Post
    I'm not sure if I ever would have classified Span as an "elite" top of the order bat but i would definitely call him an above-average offensive and defensive player.
    Span had two pretty elite seasons. Any time your leadoff guy is getting on base 39% of the time, posts an OPS+ over 120, and plays above average up-the-middle defense, that's pretty elite. You can argue that his 2009 campaign wasn't elite due to his defensive slide but his 2008 was definitely elite, as he posted over a 4 WAR in 400 ABs.

    It's unfortunate that it doesn't look like he'll ever be that player again.

  6. #6
    Banned Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Span had two pretty elite seasons. Any time your leadoff guy is getting on base 39% of the time, posts an OPS+ over 120, and plays above average up-the-middle defense, that's pretty elite. You can argue that his 2009 campaign wasn't elite due to his defensive slide but his 2008 was definitely elite, as he posted over a 4 WAR in 400 ABs.

    It's unfortunate that it doesn't look like he'll ever be that player again.
    Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.
    Road Span looks like Rich Becker.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.
    Yep. Even though he's posting stupid home/road splits, I think TF has hurt him more than most.

  9. #9
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Target Field Span is an All-Star. Road Span is Rich Becker. How can you say that Target Field has hurt Span when he has hit great there all three years? Span's home/road split in OPS since 2010: .761 H .602 R in 2010 .728 H .660 R in 2011 and .937 H and .545 R this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yep. Even though he's posting stupid home/road splits, I think TF has hurt him more than most.
    Metrodome OPS .863
    Target Field OPS .688

    I don't know if it was the turf or whatever, but Metrodome Span was a 4 win player.

    I'd love to see that return.

  11. #11
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Target Field Span is an All-Star. Road Span is Rich Becker. How can you say that Target Field has hurt Span when he has hit great there all three years? Span's home/road split in OPS since 2010: .761 H .602 R in 2010 .728 H .660 R in 2011 and .937 H and .545 R this year.
    I think he's had to change his play to accomodate TF. He was on track to become a 10-12 homer player in the dome and that number was crushed with the move to TF. I think that change of style has been a cause of his pretty bad road splits. There's nothing about Target Field that makes Span a better offensive player while there's a lot to dislike about the park as a lefty.

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    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    For me, the exciting thing about the current (and future) outfield is the ground they can cover. With pitchers that don't miss a lot of bats and generous power alleys at TF, that's critical. I never understood the rationale for trading Hardy before 2011 being a supposed desire to improve team speed on offense to take advantage of the expansive outfield at TF, while at the same time doing nothing about the lack of any speed at all in either corner OF position defensively.

    Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer minn55441's Avatar
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    Like the element of speed in our lineup that we haven't had in years past. Punto and the piranha's are nothing compared to what Revere and Masty have done on the bases. Every time they get on base, you know something is going to happen. They put pressure on the opposing defense. I really like our blend of speed and power. It is mainly brought by our 3 outfield positions.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    For me, the exciting thing about the current (and future) outfield is the ground they can cover. With pitchers that don't miss a lot of bats and generous power alleys at TF, that's critical. I never understood the rationale for trading Hardy before 2011 being a supposed desire to improve team speed on offense to take advantage of the expansive outfield at TF, while at the same time doing nothing about the lack of any speed at all in either corner OF position defensively.

    Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.
    Exactly. I want nothing to do with Parmelee in the OF. Please no.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.
    Agreed. Willingham will only get slower next year. I think it would be very exciting if, in 2014, the OF line up included 2 or 3 of the outfielders from New Britain's current lineup. I look forward to Parmalee being a regular bat in the lineup but surely there is very good reason why he has not played more outfield in his career.

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    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Hopeful 2014 lineup (with Gardy out there may be some platooning):

    C- Joe Mauer/Ryan Doumit
    1B - Chris Parmalee/Mauer
    2B - Eddie Rosario
    SS - Who knows??? Niko Goodrum/Brian Dozier/Levi Michael/FA
    3B - Trevor Plouffe
    RF - Aaron Hicks
    CF - Ben Revere
    LF - Oswaldo Arcia/Joe Benson/Willingham
    DH -Josh Willingham/Doumit

    Seems promising in most areas. Plus, Sano should be on his way shortly after 2014 begins and maybe Buxton early 2015. Span and Morneau are moved for in the 2014 and 2013 offseasons for pitching....

    ...and then I woke up and Gardy is still here and the Twins re-sign Blackburn to a two year extension.

  17. #17
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I think we should note that Willingham, according to UZR, has cost the Twins less than four runs compared to the average left fielder. He's about average per that metric.

    I think our perception of him as worse than that is because he's bad at something it doesn't measure - picking up balls on the ground. But he's not bad at getting to balls in the air, which is probably a more valuable skill. That costs outs AND bases, whereas not picking up a ball cleanly just costs bases.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I think we should note that Willingham, according to UZR, has cost the Twins less than four runs compared to the average left fielder. He's about average per that metric.
    I hate UZR and most defensive metrics.

    When it doubt go to the eye test and my eye says Willingham is a brutal defender...but as long as he hits you can live with it.

  19. #19
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    I don't think anybody sees Parmelee as a long term solution at OF. It is more a solution to many short term problems the Twins have currently.

    1) Pitching- In order to acquire more pitching the Twins need to trade somebody. OF is a position of depth currently in the organization making players here logical trade bait.

    2) IF Span/Willingham get traded this offseason there will be a spot open in the OF until Hicks/Arcia/Benson are ready to fill it. The Twins aren't going to count on Hicks/Arcia/Benson being ready to fill that hole to start 2013. They might get looks in spring training but the Twins will need to have a plan in place incase none are ready to handle that position.

    3) Parmelee will be 25 before next season and has absolutely destroyed AAA. He seemingly has nothing left to learn at AAA AND he is a potential impact bat for the lineup. His natural position of 1B likely won't be open until the trade deadline 2013 (or Morneau gets re-signed in which case Parmelee is trade bait) so he needs to find another spot to make this team.

    You put those 3 together and Parmelee in RF for half a year makes sense.

  20. #20
    I don't really understand why people are in such a hurry to get a spot open for Chris Parmelee. At best I see him being a Lyle Overbay type player. Which to me is a below average first baseman. I would rather extend Morneau for a reasonable deal.

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