Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 48

Thread: Article: Morneau vs. The Void

  1. #21
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    and 2014. He was a September callup in 2011. He has 2 more option years. This was his first option season.
    Right. He was only a September guy last season. I wasn't thinking.

  2. #22
    Banned Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    636
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Yeah, Parmalee needs to be on this team. My guess is, though, it will be in RF next year with Span on his way out the door.

    It's really a shame they don't have somewhere for him right now.
    Parm is no OF, he's best at 1B or DH.

    If the made Doumit an actually backup C/1B then it fixed everything but I don't see that happening.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,368
    Like
    413
    Liked 810 Times in 510 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Parm is no OF, he's best at 1B or DH.

    If the made Doumit an actually backup C/1B then it fixed everything but I don't see that happening.
    I'd agree with that, but Gardy won't.... Doumit has certainly warranted PT with his play as well and Gardy is going to give that time to the vet. Honestly, if Mauer could play some 3rd instead of 1st, it might make a bit more sense. I'd think if Joe can play first, he should be able to play 3rd.. He has the arm for it.

  4. #24
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,822
    Like
    176
    Liked 662 Times in 374 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Parm is no OF, he's best at 1B or DH.

    If the made Doumit an actually backup C/1B then it fixed everything but I don't see that happening.
    I'm not saying I want him there long-term, but that's what is likely to happen.

  5. #25
    I respect John's research and what he's trying to do here, but the approach is misleading. Trying to predict in August 2012 what teams will roll with at first base in April 2013 is much harder than it would seem, ESPECIALLY at 1st base. Teams want big, dumb power at first base, and the position becomes a dumping ground for guys who fail defensively at other positions, but have power potential. Every year, there's guys like Russell Branyan, Garrett Jones, and slew of Triple-A or "post hype" prospects that end up playing 1st base for MLB teams in unpredictable fashion. Given the choice between that option (often promoted from within) or paying $14 million to Morneau next year AND giving up prospects of any value, teams are going to opt for the former. And if they do trade, there are a lot of other guys that could be moved with cheaper salaries.

    I just don't want us to do the Liriano thing where we overvalue a Twin based on past contributions, and then are surprised by how little we actually get in return. Granted, Morneau was a bigger star than Liriano, and has hit much better of late. But the league knows that he's one accident away from being worthless to them. He'd probably be viewed as more of a Jim Thome or Frank Thomas 2006 plug than any type of long-term option you would give up assets for.

    Also, the Twins "brand" has taken a severe hit in these two terrible seasons. We are now considered as one of the "bad team" akin to Seattle, Houston, etc. Those teams probably have some good players with value, but it's tough to sell other teams on good players stuck on horrible teams.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    8,755
    Like
    4,851
    Liked 2,287 Times in 1,283 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    The other solution is crazy and I don't see Gardy ever doing it. But how about this. A true rotation of Morneau, Willingham, Doumit and Parmelee and even Mauer next year.

    Let's assume Doumit, Mauer, Morneau and WIllingham are holding down DH, C, 1B and LF next year. One Day on the Bench each week will get Parmelee and everybody playing time without having anyone spend ungodly periods of time on the bench.

    Just a little creative thinking and they can all fit in. I doubt Gardy would do it though. It's a crazy idea.

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,314
    Like
    1,300
    Liked 1,279 Times in 740 Posts
    I want to believe that Morneau's health issues are behind him .... but I have a hard time forgetting that it isn't JUST the issue of his concussion or even his concussion AND his wrist.

    He also had a fairly serious back problem in August/September 2009.

    Do you just dismiss that and figure he'll be okay from here on out? Do you think about that in conjunction with the concussion and wrist and his age and see Red Flags? Do you think that the change in his training routine will help him avoid injury (less is more and concentrate on the core?

    I like Morneau and have previously (2009/2010) argued that he was more important to the team's success than Mauer -- in part because I think Justin has leadership skills and now that he is playing regularly and well, I think he might exhibit more of them.

    But there may be a short window for capitalizing on a return for him. I just feel like we're holding our breath waiting for something else to happen.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    133
    Like
    4
    Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
    Morneau is too good. If his current level of performance continues for the rest of the year, the Twins should extend him. Parmalee is a good first baseman for a mediocre team -- trade him, not Morneau.

  9. #29
    Morneau is so good again. He is finally hitting like an average first baseban. YEEEA! Lets hope he doesn't fall down, get hit by a pitch or punch a wall the rest of the season or else next year is a wash. What do average first basemen with a huge salary go for in the trade market? Nothing that's what. If they could dump his contract it would be great but I doubt any team would do that even for nothing in return.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    123
    Like
    1
    Liked 11 Times in 5 Posts
    I don't see TR eating salary and I don't see him trading Morneau for non-prospects. The Dodgers had at least some interesting Morneau and a lot of veteran arms in their rotation. It's really hard to say what the Dodgers are going to do next year, but they are spending money and need a first baseman. TR is going to try to get some veteran arms for the rotation somehow (right or wrong). I could easily see a trade to the Dodgers centered around Morneau for Harang or Capuano or even Ted Lilly, depending on how certain his health is. Jerry Hairston, Juan Rivera or (also unhealthy) Matt Guerrier could get tossed in to keep the payroll in line. There's a lot of ways they could make it work.

    I don't particularly like this trade...just saying it could happen.
    Last edited by Craig in MN; 08-07-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,742
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    I respect John's research and what he's trying to do here, but the approach is misleading. Trying to predict in August 2012 what teams will roll with at first base in April 2013 is much harder than it would seem, ESPECIALLY at 1st base. Teams want big, dumb power at first base, and the position becomes a dumping ground for guys who fail defensively at other positions, but have power potential. Every year, there's guys like Russell Branyan, Garrett Jones, and slew of Triple-A or "post hype" prospects that end up playing 1st base for MLB teams in unpredictable fashion. Given the choice between that option (often promoted from within) or paying $14 million to Morneau next year AND giving up prospects of any value, teams are going to opt for the former. And if they do trade, there are a lot of other guys that could be moved with cheaper salaries.

    I just don't want us to do the Liriano thing where we overvalue a Twin based on past contributions, and then are surprised by how little we actually get in return. Granted, Morneau was a bigger star than Liriano, and has hit much better of late. But the league knows that he's one accident away from being worthless to them. He'd probably be viewed as more of a Jim Thome or Frank Thomas 2006 plug than any type of long-term option you would give up assets for.

    Also, the Twins "brand" has taken a severe hit in these two terrible seasons. We are now considered as one of the "bad team" akin to Seattle, Houston, etc. Those teams probably have some good players with value, but it's tough to sell other teams on good players stuck on horrible teams.
    I find all this very sensible and thoughtful. Good post!

    For a couple months now I've been pushing for Hammer to DH next year, moving Revere to left, Span in center and a combo/platoon RF of Parm, Mauer and Hammer. Parm the default RF. Mauer 2x a week when not catching, and Hammer in right against LHP with Doumit at DH against LHP. Doumit catches 2-3x a week and can rotate at DH with Hammer. Doumit also becomes your PH bat on the bench when not a DH or catching.

    We can never have more than one of Hammer/Parm/Doumit in the OF and under my plan Doumit would never play defense except at catcher.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  12. #32
    Member Single-A jlovren's Avatar
    Posts
    72
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Has Parmelee ever played right field? Would it make sense for him to start getting reps in the outfield?

  13. #33
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,727
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'd agree with that, but Gardy won't.... Doumit has certainly warranted PT with his play as well and Gardy is going to give that time to the vet. Honestly, if Mauer could play some 3rd instead of 1st, it might make a bit more sense. I'd think if Joe can play first, he should be able to play 3rd.. He has the arm for it.
    I've been begging for this transition to accelerate since soon after Koskie left the squad and Joe demonstrated his injury-proneness. For some reason the Twins and Mauer don't see the obvious help it would have brought to the team and still can, there's no doubt that he could: 1) play 3B decently, 2) extend his career and 3) help the team out greatly.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    178
    Like
    4
    Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
    Blog Entries
    13
    Morneau's 2012 numbers (in 86 games) project out to 28 HR's & 102 RBI (162 games). He won't get to those numbers but 25 HR & 85 RBI would be acceptable given what he's gone through.

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
    Posts
    1,220
    Twitter
    @crarko
    Like
    155
    Liked 775 Times in 407 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I've been begging for this transition to accelerate since soon after Koskie left the squad and Joe demonstrated his injury-proneness. For some reason the Twins and Mauer don't see the obvious help it would have brought to the team and still can, there's no doubt that he could: 1) play 3B decently, 2) extend his career and 3) help the team out greatly.
    Joe Mauer is still a fine athlete. He could probably be a gold glove at 3rd given the chance. I think it's a good idea.

    Of course I have zero control of it. Hahahaha.

  16. #36
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,727
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    The other solution is crazy and I don't see Gardy ever doing it. But how about this. A true rotation of Morneau, Willingham, Doumit and Parmelee and even Mauer next year.

    Let's assume Doumit, Mauer, Morneau and WIllingham are holding down DH, C, 1B and LF next year. One Day on the Bench each week will get Parmelee and everybody playing time without having anyone spend ungodly periods of time on the bench.

    Just a little creative thinking and they can all fit in. I doubt Gardy would do it though. It's a crazy idea.
    Too much, Gardy prefers "simple stuff."

    How about getting "creative" with the pitching staff so they become effective enough so that only 12 are rostered at any one time and then sticking with a two-man catching staff (has Butera vested his pension yet? If they go 3 Cs next year, I hope a more diversely talented guy like Hermann gets a decent shot at taking the #3 job). A manager can get a lot more creative with playing time with that extra bat on the bench. The days of a bench comprised of only the likes of Butera, Casilla, Tolbert, Harris et al, besides being embarrassing, have registered opportunity cost in the W-L record.

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,983
    Like
    98
    Liked 384 Times in 199 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I've been begging for this transition to accelerate since soon after Koskie left the squad and Joe demonstrated his injury-proneness. For some reason the Twins and Mauer don't see the obvious help it would have brought to the team and still can, there's no doubt that he could: 1) play 3B decently, 2) extend his career and 3) help the team out greatly.
    Hopefully Plouffe proves to be a valuable asset at 3rd base for the foreseeable future. If Joe moves to 3rd base I think it would be a full time move since he would have to continue to hone his craft at the hot corner. It is much easier for him to catch a few times a week and play 1st base when he needs a break, seeing how the skill set to play 1st is very minimal. (If that makes sense?)

    At this point I like the current usage of Mauer, I wouldn't mind him catching more, but when you have a guy like Doumit who is perfectly capable there is no reason to not run them out there 50/50.

    Also one thing we should keep in mind moving onto 2013: Span, Morneau, Mauer, Doumit and Willingham have all had injury issues multiple times in the past. It's amazing they have stayed as healthy as they have this year as a whole, but I wouldn't be shocked if one or two went down for a decent amount of time next year (thus freeing up even more at bats for Parmelee) and while I think Parmelee has some potential, I don't think he is the type of player who you move a Morneau for at this point to free up a spot for him. Next year at the deadline if the Twins are out of it? Different story.

    If a team offers you one of top 25 pitching prospects in baseball? Different story.

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,983
    Like
    98
    Liked 384 Times in 199 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    The other solution is crazy and I don't see Gardy ever doing it. But how about this. A true rotation of Morneau, Willingham, Doumit and Parmelee and even Mauer next year.

    Let's assume Doumit, Mauer, Morneau and WIllingham are holding down DH, C, 1B and LF next year. One Day on the Bench each week will get Parmelee and everybody playing time without having anyone spend ungodly periods of time on the bench.

    Just a little creative thinking and they can all fit in. I doubt Gardy would do it though. It's a crazy idea.
    If Morneau and Willingham are healthy and effective there is no reason to take them out of the lineup one day a week. Mauer/Doumit are obviously a diff story with the catching/injury thing.

    I'd imagine most managers wouldn't do something like that. If Parmelee comes up and starts mashing in the bigs they will figure out a way to keep his bat in the lineup. (See: Mark Trumbo)

  19. #39
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,368
    Like
    413
    Liked 810 Times in 510 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Hopefully Plouffe proves to be a valuable asset at 3rd base for the foreseeable future. If Joe moves to 3rd base I think it would be a full time move since he would have to continue to hone his craft at the hot corner. It is much easier for him to catch a few times a week and play 1st base when he needs a break, seeing how the skill set to play 1st is very minimal. (If that makes sense?)

    At this point I like the current usage of Mauer, I wouldn't mind him catching more, but when you have a guy like Doumit who is perfectly capable there is no reason to not run them out there 50/50.

    Also one thing we should keep in mind moving onto 2013: Span, Morneau, Mauer, Doumit and Willingham have all had injury issues multiple times in the past. It's amazing they have stayed as healthy as they have this year as a whole, but I wouldn't be shocked if one or two went down for a decent amount of time next year (thus freeing up even more at bats for Parmelee) and while I think Parmelee has some potential, I don't think he is the type of player who you move a Morneau for at this point to free up a spot for him. Next year at the deadline if the Twins are out of it? Different story.

    If a team offers you one of top 25 pitching prospects in baseball? Different story.
    The problem is the log jam. You have Morneau, Doumit, and Mauer all taking reps at 1B/DH thus ending any hope to get Parmelee up playing every day. The only difference between 3B and 1B is that you need an arm and that you will get far more throwing opportunities. 1B is just as much a hot corner for lefties except that there's less lefties in MLB. I haven't seen enough of Mauer at 1st, but I've not heard there being issues with him fielding grounders. If Mauer has the arm, why not let him play 3rd? That will give Plouffe an occasional day off, or you can shift Trevor to the middle if you want to go with an all-offense lineup.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Double-A DJSim22's Avatar
    Posts
    121
    Like
    49
    Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    What's wrong with having a little depth? Everyone is assuming there are no injuries to Mauer, Morneau, Willingham, or Doumit.

    People keep saying what if Morneau isn't back, what if he gets hurt. Well, we've seen Parmelee hit big league pitching for a month, what if he plays everyday and hits .194 like he was off the bench this year?

    We need pitching, but have money coming off the books with Pavano and Capps. Use that money to get a pitcher and keep a line up that 1-7 is starting to look real good. No need to rush Parmelee.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.