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Thread: Judging the Liriano trade

  1. #1
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    Judging the Liriano trade

    I've been trying to figure out a good way of saying this but I haven't been able to order my thoughts well and now I have run out of time. Please don't get caught up in the little details of my post but instead look at what my main point is; I feel like my whole point is on the tip of my brain but I just can't get it out for what it's worth. For anyone who feels they understand my point and can better elucidate it, please do.

    Liriano's performance tomorrow might be one for the ages. He might throw a no-no. He might pitch 1 inning and allow 7 ER. He could go undefeated in his starts from now until September or be pulled from the rotation entirely. While any outcome will clearly have an effect on the final standings and Chicago's chances at winning the pennant, none of his starts should be used as justification on whether Terry Ryan made a good trade. What matters when judging a decision is not what happens afterwards but rather the knowledge one had beforehand and the thought process that led to the decision. Holding Terry Ryan responsible, whether it is good or bad, for Liriano's performance is nothing but hindsight and laziness. Terry Ryan cannot be held responsible for Liriano's future outings because they are just that; the future. What matters is only the knowledge Terry Ryan had at the time the decision was made.

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    There is no good way to say it, it is just plain rotten and leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth. Ryan is out of this mind and time will prove it.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    There is no good way to say it, it is just plain rotten and leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth. Ryan is out of this mind and time will prove it.
    You're going to look silly when Liriano keeps up his average ERA+ of 80 or so for the next few years and then washes out of baseball. Too bad he only had one really good season. Six years ago.

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    C

    Liriano wasn't close to worth extending a 12.5M qualifying offer and he didn't have much trade value. The pieces that the Twins got back are uninspiring though.

    One thing that the Liriano boo birds need to be careful about is that he could make the Twins look very foolish. He has upside but it was time for the two to part ways.

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    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    You're going to look silly when Liriano keeps up his average ERA+ of 80 or so for the next few years and then washes out of baseball. Too bad he only had one really good season. Six years ago.
    2010 didnt happen?

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    I hope he craps the bed for his next 10 starts and keeps Chicago out of the playoffs. I hope that Cuellar teaches this pitcher we got a decent cutter and improves his changeup and we have Santana part 2 on our hands...

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    Perhaps I can't speak for all the people disappointed in this trade, but I feel that the trade defenders don't quite get the point of the frustration. Hernandez wasn't a highly rated prospect, but he's ready to go, he'll probably be up in September or if another starter gets injured. The probelm is the guy has a 88-92 MPH fastball and an average K/9 rate in the minors that is going to translate to a below average K/9 rate at the majors. There just doesn't appear to much room for improvement with this guy.

    I can't seem to find where people quoted Hernandez to be ranked in the Sox system, but my point is, I think many of us would have been much more satisfied had Ryan gotten a guy similarly ranked but was in A ball with some strikeout potential. Those guys make a fan think that you might have found a diamond in the rough, as opposed to getting a MLB ready arm with little hope of being more than a long reliever.

    I'm sure someone is going to say, a guy like that was not available, but that's utter BS. There were at least 4 teams in on Liriano, at least one of them, and likely all of them would have been willing to part with a prospect similarly ranked to Hernandez but was lower in a system and had swing and miss potential. Ryan picked MLB ready over better potential, I don't know how it can be seen any other way and that's what I don't like.

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    Other teams also want that higher upside player lower in the minors. And just because other teams like the Jays and Braves had scouted Liriano doesn't mean that they were in on Liriano. I think it's pretty clear that other teams WEREN'T in on Liriano.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    2010 didnt happen?
    Read it again. "One really good season." Not "one really good season and another above average season." I left out 2010 because it simply wasn't comparable at all to his 2006 campaign. Everyone seems to think Liriano is great, and the only reason I can think of is that 2006 dominance. It's a case of woulda-coulda-shoulda. Certainly, his 2008-2012 numbers don't compare. Not even a little bit.

    2010 was nice, with a 112 ERA+. 2006 was "really good," with a 208 ERA+. You may think I'm splitting hairs, but I think there's a huge difference. And Liriano will never, ever return to his 2006 form.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Other teams also want that higher upside player lower in the minors. And just because other teams like the Jays and Braves had scouted Liriano doesn't mean that they were in on Liriano. I think it's pretty clear that other teams WEREN'T in on Liriano.
    The Jays and Braves may not have been, but the reports said the Red Sox were in it until the end and the Cardinals and Orioles were also in on Liriano. I'm not talking top 10 prospects here, as I clearly stated, I'm talking about players that have a similar ranking to Hernandez. Teams rarely have an issue trading thier 20th-30th ranked minor leaguers in A ball, someone surely was available, Ryan just went the safer route.

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