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Thread: Twins patience Vs White Sox fast track with young players

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    Twins patience Vs White Sox fast track with young players

    So who has this right the Twins or the Sox? Chicago has alot of young arms in the majors now that would most likely would be at AA if they were lucky if the pitched for the Twins.

    It just makes you wonder if Chicago has better scouts than Minnesota with all the young players they have produced in the last couple of years compared to MN. Too bad we will never have any players fast tracked to help out.

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    Well, Chris Sale is in the Sox rotation while Wimmers has struggled, but the draft worked out that way because the Twins had a lower draft pick as a result of being a superior team the season before. To be fair though, had the Twins had their choice of pitcher at #13 that season, it is still possible they still would have chosen Wimmers over Sale. The only other young starter for the Sox is Quintana. He's 23 but has been in organized baseball since he was 17. Their closer Addison Reed is the only other 23-year-old pitcher getting significant time. You're right, he possibly would not be with the Twins yet having been drafted in 2010, but he dominated the minors, and 23-year-olds are not really the outlier for the Twins, they've had plenty of them over the last decade. It seems like the Sox do move guys up faster but I don't know if the difference is significant, especialy this year. Liam Hendriks has started and he too is 23.

    If you want to look for a bias age, look for 21-year-olds. There are usually several pitchers of that age in the league, but the Twins have only gotten 15 starts from pitchers that age since they left Old Met.

  3. #3
    I seem to recall both Liriano and Garza being fairly young when they made their debuts. In fact Garza made his debut about a year after being drafted. Sale and Quintana are really the only two "fast tracked" arms the White Sox are getting good production from. It just so happens Sales' production has been really good thus far.

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    I think it depends on which guys were drafted and when. Sale, for instance, was considered one of the quickest to the majors guy in his draft. The White Sox also traditionally drafted higher than the Twins - both Beckham and Sale were top 13 picks. It's also a bit much to suggest the Twins haven't had young pitchers on the ML level. And the Twins have fast tracked a number of players - Baker, Garza and Gibson all moved three levels in one year.

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    Not to be negative but you could probably count on 1 hand the amount of Twins players who have made the majors with less than 2 years in the minors and never got sent back down.

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    The Sox have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball. I'm not sure the Twins shoudl be looking to them for cues in how to develop players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    The Sox have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball. I'm not sure the Twins shoudl be looking to them for cues in how to develop players.
    yes, and the extreme dearth of talent in their organization has probably led to some people being in positions they shouldn't be. think pat meares and les straker. the white sox are an abysmal organization for developing talent and tend to parallel the tigers in the hopes of pinning everything on their top choices.

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    To be fair though, had the Twins had their choice of pitcher at #13 that season, it is still possible they still would have chosen Wimmers over Sale.
    Highly doubtftul

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    Back to the question...

    Do you want players challenged or thriving?

    Great success at a level beings confidence and sometimes complacency.

    Challenge at a level brings hard work but shakes confidence.

    It is a balance but I believe being challenged and struggling at a level as a younger player is better for development than being league average age and thriving. Being challenged leads to hard work and willingness to listen, change and grow. It can build character. It can also lead to a messed up head.

    For the Twins major league prospects, I would like to see them move up quickly. I think they have done that well with Arcia. Sano has been challenged and is in the right spot but they might start him in AA next year. Rosario also. Hendriks has found success and is now learning he needs to make some changes. Organizations can not always wait so long that a player is ready for a level. You can't learn to be ready for major league hitters in AAA. If you are in the position of the Twins you can afford to let them struggle and see if they have the character to grow. Patience is the key. You may not see fruits until next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Highly doubtftul
    I'd put money on them taking Wimmers over Sale.

  11. #11
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    The 2008 season thru yesterday, not a small sample size, the Twins are 376-376 a .500 team. The White Sox are 390-361; 29 games over. That's not a lot better but when you consider all the talk about how great a run the Twins had the reality is they are a mediocre team that luckily plays in a bad division. (remember no playoff wins since 2004). Thinking that the Twins are the superior organization would then point the finger at the field staff not holding up their end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Back to the question...

    Do you want players challenged or thriving?

    Great success at a level beings confidence and sometimes complacency.

    Challenge at a level brings hard work but shakes confidence.

    It is a balance but I believe being challenged and struggling at a level as a younger player is better for development than being league average age and thriving. Being challenged leads to hard work and willingness to listen, change and grow. It can build character. It can also lead to a messed up head.

    For the Twins major league prospects, I would like to see them move up quickly. I think they have done that well with Arcia. Sano has been challenged and is in the right spot but they might start him in AA next year. Rosario also. Hendriks has found success and is now learning he needs to make some changes. Organizations can not always wait so long that a player is ready for a level. You can't learn to be ready for major league hitters in AAA. If you are in the position of the Twins you can afford to let them struggle and see if they have the character to grow. Patience is the key. You may not see fruits until next year.
    Why in the world would they put Sano in AA next year. A+ to AA is the hardest jump in the minors to take, and Sano isn't exactly lighting Beloit on fire... He's doing well, but hardly dominant. Rosario has missed valuable PT to injury, though he was playing much better than Sano was prior to it. You mentioned in this same thread that challenge is hard work but can shake confidence, so why on earth would you risk killing the confidence of two of your best prospects? I could see it if these guys continued to put up video game stats in beloit, but they aren't.

    Too much patience isn't going to be the reason why a guy fails.

  13. #13
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    Too much patience might not cause failure, but it might flush a year or two of productive major league time down the drain. It might also limit the pitchers' time in the majors, if you buy the thought that for most pitchers there are only so many pitches in their arm.

    I really don't know which process works better, but neither team has exactly been successful lately at developing a lot of good players from their system. Also, two systems isn't really enough sample size to decide. I'd bet there is research someplace on the interwebs that considers this, but I've never looked for it.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Here's a case study for you: Carlos Gomez. 5 tool talent, and rushed by the Mets. He needed more time to develop, but the Twins also felt the need to justify the Santana trade, so he's the starting CF on opening day. Remember that experiment? Not only wasn't he ready, but the challenge meant he was taking his lumps at the major league level instead of learning things at lower levels where the team wasn't negatively impacted by that. Sano could turn into a star in this league, but it is highly doubtful that he's going to be hitting like one from day one. His first year is going to have some bumps. Rush him quicker, and he experiences more bumps at hte major league level and has his confidence drained when a half a dozen different coaches and players are all telling him how to improve his game. You aren't flushing a year or two of productive time down the drain because far more often than not, it is not productive time, and if you move the guy too fast, you cause other problems that arent' easily curable. The Twins have their fair share of problems, the speed at which they promote their guys is rarely one of them.

    Here's a question... How many players have they had that have done nothing but dominate only to be held back? I cannot think of many. Slamma mabye... Neshek's and Bartlett's promotions took a bit longer than fans would have liked as both continued to rake in AAA while there were obvious needs at their positions in Minnesota.... But who else?

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