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Thread: Surprise: "R&R" does not work for Wimmers' elbow

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    The one pitcher I can think of that was said to have rehabbed from a partially torn UCL is Takashi Saito. I read this in some article in last year or so - could not say where I read it or if it is accurate.

  2. #22
    Even if R&R works 20 per cent of the time it should be tried. A players long term health should be the deciding factor not how fast the player can come back. People here seem to be advocating immediate surgery in the case of any elbow problems. I am not excusing the Twins medical staff in any way. We continue to see players listed as day to day only to have them put on the disabled list down the road. Plouffe is a recent example but being cautious with recommending surgery is not a problem.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dklien View Post
    Even if R&R works 20 per cent of the time it should be tried. A players long term health should be the deciding factor not how fast the player can come back. People here seem to be advocating immediate surgery in the case of any elbow problems. I am not excusing the Twins medical staff in any way. We continue to see players listed as day to day only to have them put on the disabled list down the road. Plouffe is a recent example but being cautious with recommending surgery is not a problem.
    I agree with this. People are pretty casual in demanding surgery when it isn't them getting cut open. You are still talking about people and their lives and their potential livelihoods. Tommy John is a fairly successful surgery but its not perfect, it should always be a last resort.

    I imagine there is a combination of the Twins, Wimmers, Wimmer's agent getting together and making decisions. It is entirely possible Twins wanted surgery but Wimmers wanted rehab.
    Papers...business papers.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dklien View Post
    Even if R&R works 20 per cent of the time it should be tried. A players long term health should be the deciding factor not how fast the player can come back. People here seem to be advocating immediate surgery in the case of any elbow problems. I am not excusing the Twins medical staff in any way. We continue to see players listed as day to day only to have them put on the disabled list down the road. Plouffe is a recent example but being cautious with recommending surgery is not a problem.
    My thoughts as well, plus there really wasn't/isn't some huge rush with Whimmers, its not like he is currently accomulating Major League Service time or anything.

    It sucks, but I agree, you don't want to just start cutting people open at the first sign of trouble.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Surkamp is another example of someone who had surgery delayed all season up until right now.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I agree with this. People are pretty casual in demanding surgery when it isn't them getting cut open. .
    Quote Originally Posted by dklien View Post
    being cautious with recommending surgery is not a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    It sucks, but I agree, you don't want to just start cutting people open at the first sign of trouble.
    A couple of funky medical facts:

    - Appendicitis pain and infection will get away with IV antibiotics (but it will happen again, unless you take care of it)
    - Infected and inflamed tooth pulp and nerves would quit hurting with a round of antibiotics (but they will hurt again some time soon, unless you have a root canal).

    That simple. Ligaments do not regenerate. If they are torn or partially torn, you got to do something about it. Of course, you can "rest" them and throw cortisone shots to make the inflammation and pain reduced and you can really build some scar tissue around them too... but they'll snap again and you got to do what you got to do.

    About that simple.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    A couple of funky medical facts:

    - Appendicitis pain and infection will get away with IV antibiotics (but it will happen again, unless you take care of it)
    - Infected and inflamed tooth pulp and nerves would quit hurting with a round of antibiotics (but they will hurt again some time soon, unless you have a root canal).

    That simple. Ligaments do not regenerate. If they are torn or partially torn, you got to do something about it. Of course, you can "rest" them and throw cortisone shots to make the inflammation and pain reduced and you can really build some scar tissue around them too... but they'll snap again and you got to do what you got to do.

    About that simple.
    Maybe, but "partially torn UCL" can represent a continuum of injury. If it was torn through they would have already had surgery. Obviously it is only partially torn and determined that it is possible to still pitch with the situation. If it is possible to pitch that is preferable to having surgery. The likely result is that Wimmers will ultimately need surgery, but that still doesn't mean they should rush into surgery. I also don't accept that this is solely a Twins medical staff decision.
    Papers...business papers.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    I see that dankind was all over it.
    Dan O ‏@Coulrophobia7 @jonheymancbs in all fairness, I haven't swung a bat in a decade, and I could hit better than most major leaguers. it's not that tough.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Maybe, but "partially torn UCL" can represent a continuum of injury. If it was torn through they would have already had surgery. Obviously it is only partially torn and determined that it is possible to still pitch with the situation. If it is possible to pitch that is preferable to having surgery. The likely result is that Wimmers will ultimately need surgery, but that still doesn't mean they should rush into surgery. I also don't accept that this is solely a Twins medical staff decision.
    Yup, I am more likely to agree with Dr. Jim then non Dr. Thrylos.

  10. #30
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    Dan O ‏@Coulrophobia7 @jonheymancbs in all fairness, I haven't swung a bat in a decade, and I could hit better than most major leaguers. it's not that tough.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    Dan O ‏@Coulrophobia7 @jonheymancbs in all fairness, I haven't swung a bat in a decade, and I could hit better than most major leaguers. it's not that tough.
    That is fantastic.

  12. #32
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    Why does everyone get their undies in a wad over having someone ready to go on opening day? Do you really plan on letting them pitch 150 innings after pitching 1 inning competitively the year before? I think the time table of returning in July and getting 75-100 innings in before the end of the year is a good goal. In that case, NO time was wasted by waiting.

  13. #33
    lookin up players who intended to rehab over surgery, I found Juan Carlos Oviedo of MIA & Neftali Perez of TEX. Problem is that both just hurt/reinjured themselves in the past couple wks. Only other pitcher who shows up for rehab over surgery is Alex Wimmers!!! The list of players who quickly decided to have the surgery to get back next year was huge.
    Brandon Beachy
    Kyle Drabek
    Daniel Hudson
    Jose Contreras
    Joakin Soria
    Danny Duffy
    Charly Morton
    Tyshiosi Wade
    Todd Coffey
    Brian Wilson
    Ryan Madsen
    Scot Baker
    Cory Leubke
    Mike Pelphrey
    Aroldys Vizcaino.....tried rehab in 2010
    among others

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