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Thread: John Shipley: Pohlad Hopes Ryan will be Permanent GM

  1. #21
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    I'd be ok with Ryan getting one more chance to fix the rotation. At the very minimum, he and the organization have finally shown in the last year that they are seeking pitchers in the draft and through trade that have the ability to keep guys from putting the ball in play. Even if he won't admit it, that indicates he realizes his past short-comings when it comes to evaluating pitchers.

    Still, he needs to sign a veteran, possibly two, who are legit front end anchors. Ryan has given exactly ONE multi-year deal to a free agent starter who was not with the Twins the season before, and that was 36-year-old Bob Tewksbury in 1997. That probably surprises no one but none-the-less is shocking. Needless to say, you are not going to be getting an ace in free agency if you refuse to offer more than one year.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans View Post
    I assume Krivisky too--
    That's why I was surprised by Pohlad's comment regarding Ryan's position as permanent. From Ryan's response it sounds like he was caught off guard.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Nearly all show 20-20 hindsight, blind going forward on this board.
    This.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Really? You think questioning Marquis and Capps signings is hindsight? I don't think that word means what you think it means*

    *if you don't know what movie that is from, I feel bad for you...
    14/15 saves for Capps, though not pretty at times. Injuries happen. Yes questioning Capps signing given his numbers is poor. Capps, Crain or Guerrier. 1 out of the 3. Only one ever closed. All three had sub par seasons this year. About equal salaries. Whining about Capps is poor at best. Given what the Twins wanted to spend, Marquis signing was about the best they could do. About a .500 pitcher. Questioning his signg versus what at the time? Unproven Diamond. A reclamation project like Sheets that worked later in the season (for how long). Millwood is now 3-8. What was out there that was a free agent pitcher for the same money that worked. NONE. So yeas I think a lot of people on this board work well with hindsight and no foresight.

    WTF about a movie? Why should I care about something someone made up? Really, you feel bad because I don't know a movie? As bad as I feel that people on this board expend negative energy towards others, feeling bad because someone does not know a movie? I might as well go read the complete works of Chris Chase.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    14/15 saves for Capps, though not pretty at times. Injuries happen. Yes questioning Capps signing given his numbers is poor. Capps, Crain or Guerrier. 1 out of the 3. Only one ever closed. All three had sub par seasons this year. About equal salaries. Whining about Capps is poor at best. Given what the Twins wanted to spend, Marquis signing was about the best they could do. About a .500 pitcher. Questioning his signg versus what at the time? Unproven Diamond. A reclamation project like Sheets that worked later in the season (for how long). Millwood is now 3-8. What was out there that was a free agent pitcher for the same money that worked. NONE. So yeas I think a lot of people on this board work well with hindsight and no foresight.

    WTF about a movie? Why should I care about something someone made up? Really, you feel bad because I don't know a movie? As bad as I feel that people on this board expend negative energy towards others, feeling bad because someone does not know a movie? I might as well go read the complete works of Chris Chase.
    Hindsight?? Before the Season started, most of the Forum did not like the two pickups. Go back and read some past postings.
    Last edited by Highabove; 07-29-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    You spend a little more, you probaly get a reliable pitcher. Scrape the bottom, you risk throwing away your Money like a cheap TV.

    Here's a start, a little hindsight yes, but a great Baseball man like Ryan should be able to pluck a few of these.
    Paul Maholm 4.7 million
    Erik Bedard 4.5 million
    Chris Capuano 9million total for 2 years + 1 mil buyout.
    There will be a large class of these mid level Guys next year.
    Last edited by Highabove; 07-29-2012 at 06:00 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Of course he wants him back, the fans never blame Ryan for anything, even when they cut payroll in the third year of a new stadium. He's teflon.
    Yes, because it was Terry Ryan who made this decision, not the Pohlads.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

    "mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

    "mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.
    For months this was a civil forum. We did not have members taking personal shots at each other.
    If you do not like postings from a particular member, don't read them!!
    There is a wide range of views here from Kool aid to over the top.
    That's the way it is.
    Last edited by Highabove; 07-29-2012 at 07:51 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    For months this was a civil forum. You did not have members taking personal shots at each other.
    If you do not like postings from a particular member, don't read them!!
    There is a wide range of views here from Kool aid to over the top.
    That's the way it is.
    Like I said, I was probably being hypocritical, and will stop now. But, to me, those are the guys that killed the civility around here.

    I'm done now! Promise.

  11. #31
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    raindog, it is not my intent to kill every thread. On most of the prospect threads, I'm quite positive, even admitting that Hicks is getting me excited again. But I can see that my posts this last week have been pretty harsh on the major league team. I didn't see this before posting on the Sox trade, but I can tone it down for a bit. No problem.

    I do find it odd that people come to a Twins' discussion site, and complain that people offer opinions in general (note, this is not aimed at you, I thought your post about me was pretty civil, given your message).

    Tell you what, I'll go the next three weeks w/o posting a negative thought (which may lead to less posting about the ML team, but oh well).

    I do find it odd that anyone would say that I don't use facts, or back up my statements. I try very hard to do that, and not just say stuff....
    Last edited by mike wants wins; 07-29-2012 at 06:55 AM.
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #32
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

    "mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.
    There's an ignore feature if you can't stomach it.


    Personally I've typically found mike wants wins to possess quality insight, here and in various fangraphs articles, despite the negativity (and this team has certainly earned every bit of negativity that comes its way).
    Last edited by snepp; 07-29-2012 at 10:52 AM.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

    "mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.
    You're not the only one who feel this way.

    However, what I've found is that we can make lemonade from these lemons. Whatever they say, you know right off the bat that there's a reasonable case to be made for the opposite.

  14. #34
    Best decision I ever made: deciding to commit to watching/following the Pirates as much as I did the Twins in 2008 when the Neal Huntington regime was settling in. It's just SO damn nice cheering for an organization with a front office that realizes it's the 21st century and rarely does anything to incense anyone who's realized similar things.

    Hopefully the Pohlads decide to cash out on the gift given to them by the people of Minnesota and an owner with a clue comes in and cleans house in the F.O. and field staff.

    Not. Holding. My. Breath.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobynotjason View Post
    Best decision I ever made: deciding to commit to watching/following the Pirates as much as I did the Twins in 2008 when the Neal Huntington regime was settling in. It's just SO damn nice cheering for an organization with a front office that realizes it's the 21st century and rarely does anything to incense anyone who's realized similar things.
    Interesting comparison, I think they are pretty similar type GMs, actually. IIRC, Huntington was mocked for a lot of his trades. He traded off Bay, Wilson, Snell, Nady etc and got a few complementary pieces back. Tony Sanchez and Mark Appeal fiascos. Twins outbid them on Sano. He hired an old school type manager.

    Pirate drafts have been interesting. On one hand, guys like Alvarez, Cole and Taillon were no-brainer picks but also made expensive gambles on guys like Allie and Bell. And his 08 draft hasn't really worked out yet - his first three picks are 25 now and yet to break out (Alvarez is having a nice season, I suppose, but a .297 OBP is scary), his 4th pick is back in the minors, I believe. Obviously no one from the 09-12 drafts have made it yet.

    Clearly, he's done some good things - but I wonder how you'd feel if Ryan punted the #4 pick for financial reasons or lost the #8 pick in a draft. If he had lost Sano to some other team, despite Sano wanting to come here. If his prize prospects were underwhelming at the ML level and not debuting before 25. I suspect your views would be much different based on you interpret the GMs rather than on what moves the GM actually made.

  16. #36
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    I am happy to have discussions based on facts, anytime you want to have them.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

    "mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.
    This obviously is off topic from the original topic of the thread, although that topic seems to have dried up. And you or anyone else could probably care less what I think on the topic. But hey, welcome to the internet!! Haha.

    The point you bring up is a bit close to my nerve center, which is why I figured I would respond. I think there are two different types you've lumped into one group. But there is a HUGE difference between the two types, and they don't deserve to be put together.

    In one group are those that look at and occasionally (or often) present facts to others, and based on those facts come to a conclusion that is often (or even nearly always) fairly negative or pessimistic. While I may often (or nearly always) disagree with the conclusion, it is theirs to make. I think anyone (including he) would agree that 'mike wants wins' falls into a pessimisitc group, but it seems from his reply and others in this thread that he is basing that pessimism in fact. (I should mention I'm going on what was said in this thread. I would have to look back to find out if that's true.)

    On the other hand, there are people who are more what, I think, you are describing and lamenting. Those that not only have nothing but complaints, but that either provide no justification or, even worse, "back up" their rants with exaggerations, fabrications, misinterpretations, and flat out lies. These are the people that I would say are closer to "killing this board." Let us not confuse and mix up the pessimist with the troll. It's not fair to either of them.

    I will also add that I think the overwhelming presence of reasonable pessimists and optimists both are more than a match for those in the second group and the death of the board is not likely to be achieved because of their nonsense.

  18. #38
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    Good post by cdog, I certainly hope I am in the first group, when I am pessimistic, which is probably about 70% of my posts here lately....which is too high a percent for even my comfort.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Good post by cdog, I certainly hope I am in the first group, when I am pessimistic, which is probably about 70% of my posts here lately....which is too high a percent for even my comfort.
    Mike, you can be pessimistic, but I don't blame you for it. I don't always agree with your opinions, but I usually think they're well thought out. So, no complaint there from me.

    Cdog had it right though, there is a second category of posters on this site that are here solely to complain without using any facts to back themselves up. To those people, it is best just to ignore them and move on.

    As for the original topic, I think TR has had a rough go of it this year. I think he has done some good things, but he's made some mistakes (Marquis). I personally am not ready to call the Liriano trade a complete bust yet... yet. I'm not even ready to call the Delmon Young trade a bust yet (I think Oliveros might have some value sooner rather than later). I will, of course, be willing to eat my words at any time when it becomes completely apparent that I am wrong.
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

  20. #40
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    I stand by what I have said since they brought him back, he should get at least 1 mote offseason to male them better and younger before reaching some conclusion in the job he is doing.

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