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Thread: Packaging Willingham and Morneau for Bundy

  1. #21
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I guess I'm a dimbulb: could you let me in on the joke? I keep seeing Terry Ryan referred to as JR.

    His initials are TWR; he's not a "junior" to father of the same name; he doesn't resemble J.R. Ewing as far as I can see. Please help.
    It's a running joke that goes back to the ESPN board almost ten years ago. Some poster came onto the board and started berating us over some conversation we were having about Jerry Ryan (or, as he liked to call him, "JR").

    The name stuck.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alarp33 View Post
    In 2 days you've got the Twins landing Justin Upton for Span and Dylan Bundy for Morneau-Willingham. Just please stop already troll
    The former trade idea is consistent with win-now, the latter, with win-later. If you have better ideas to float, than do.

    I think like some others-including prospective buyers ("pricey," "More pricey," "Made me laugh") that people over-value the Twins trade chips as the current CBA and contract situations stand. Thus I propose sign and trades wherever possible. A win-now trade for Upton could easily synergize with a return to form by Baker, Pavano, Gibson, Liriano and, combined with healthy seasons from key players (mauer, Willingham) could push this club back into the ALC lead.

    The worst would be for returning players to outperform expectations, and the FO stayed away contributors by being close-minded before the 2012 trade deadline. 2013 could look very different from 2011-2012, if the cards fall right. If the cards are wrong, then a firesale now would maximize returns for when a return to form is ripe - 2015-2016 most likely.

    One or the other, that is what I would like to know about. Since so much boom-or-bust depends on a few key players - Liriano, Baker, Gibson, Mauer, Morneau, Plouffe, esp. None are sure things, but all have high upside. If things break half/half, then we are like the White Sox cca. 2011-2012 - finishing just outside of contention. Something the Pohlads would certainly prefer to a firesale. Thus I am inquiring to those who want a firesale - what exactly should we do?
    Last edited by Willihammer; 07-26-2012 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Ideas worth floating are ideas that would make sense for both teams. I really don't see this making sense. Bundy is untouchable. Willingham is our best asset, and Morneau will be a better one if the Twins shop him next year. I'd probably be happy if the Twins flipped Willingham for Bundy. The reality is that unless Bill Smith takes over in Baltimore, that trade isn't happening.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    The former trade idea is consistent with win-now, the latter, with win-later. If you have better ideas to float, than do.

    I think like some others-including prospective buyers ("pricey," "More pricey," "Made me laugh") that people over-value the Twins trade chips as the current CBA and contract situations stand. Thus I propose sign and trades wherever possible. A win-now trade for Upton could easily synergize with a return to form by Baker, Pavano, Gibson, Liriano and, combined with healthy seasons from key players (mauer, Willingham) could push this club back into the ALC lead.

    The worst would be for returning players to outperform expectations, and the FO stayed away contributors by being close-minded before the 2012 trade deadline. 2013 could look very different from 2011-2012, if the cards fall right. If the cards are wrong, then a firesale now would maximize returns for when a return to form is ripe - 2015-2016 most likely.

    One or the other, that is what I would like to know about. Since so much boom-or-bust depends on a few key players - Liriano, Baker, Gibson, Mauer, Morneau, Plouffe, esp. None are sure things, but all have high upside. If things break half/half, then we are like the White Sox cca. 2011-2012 - finishing just outside of contention. Something the Pohlads would certainly prefer to a firesale. Thus I am inquiring to those who want a firesale - what exactly should we do?
    I do not think anyone was questioning your philosophy. The Twins getting Dylan Bundy and to a lesser note Justin Upton were the target of threader's questioning your supposed returns. These, my friend are delusions of grandure and are out of whack with the real world. These player returns are not in the spectrum of reality... any kind of reality.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    It's a running joke that goes back to the ESPN board almost ten years ago. Some poster came onto the board and started berating us over some conversation we were having about Jerry Ryan (or, as he liked to call him, "JR").

    The name stuck.
    Thanks for the explanation, PP.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    The former trade idea is consistent with win-now, the latter, with win-later. If you have better ideas to float, than do.

    I think like some others-including prospective buyers ("pricey," "More pricey," "Made me laugh") that people over-value the Twins trade chips as the current CBA and contract situations stand. Thus I propose sign and trades wherever possible. A win-now trade for Upton could easily synergize with a return to form by Baker, Pavano, Gibson, Liriano and, combined with healthy seasons from key players (mauer, Willingham) could push this club back into the ALC lead.

    The worst would be for returning players to outperform expectations, and the FO stayed away contributors by being close-minded before the 2012 trade deadline. 2013 could look very different from 2011-2012, if the cards fall right. If the cards are wrong, then a firesale now would maximize returns for when a return to form is ripe - 2015-2016 most likely.

    One or the other, that is what I would like to know about. Since so much boom-or-bust depends on a few key players - Liriano, Baker, Gibson, Mauer, Morneau, Plouffe, esp. None are sure things, but all have high upside. If things break half/half, then we are like the White Sox cca. 2011-2012 - finishing just outside of contention. Something the Pohlads would certainly prefer to a firesale. Thus I am inquiring to those who want a firesale - what exactly should we do?
    In regards to Justin Upton... Isn't the elephant in the room that he could be available at all.

    He is real young... Power Speed... All 5 tools... Under control for a nice chunk of time and under 10 million a year. One of the top talents in baseball.

    Why is he being shopped??? Teams don't shop players like this. Unless there is something really wrong with him. Attitude... He runs a dog fighting ring or somethng.

    To me it's a red flag so big that bulls are snorting and getting ready to charge for 10 square miles.

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killertwinsfan View Post
    The O's would not go for it, Bundy is the Top Pitching prospect in the game right now. For Bundy they would want a Justin Upton or Giancarlo Stanton. Plus the O's should not be buying right now, at least not anything they have to give a real prospect up for. They have the second worst run differentail in the AL. Now if they were dumb enough to go for it I'll help Morneau and Willingham pack thier bags. A more realistic prosepct wold be Zack Lee of the Dodgers.
    Yeah, this makes sense.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    In regards to Justin Upton... Isn't the elephant in the room that he could be available at all.

    He is real young... Power Speed... All 5 tools... Under control for a nice chunk of time and under 10 million a year. One of the top talents in baseball.

    Why is he being shopped??? Teams don't shop players like this. Unless there is something really wrong with him. Attitude... He runs a dog fighting ring or somethng.

    To me it's a red flag so big that bulls are snorting and getting ready to charge for 10 square miles.
    Hey River Brian. It is good to read your written word. Much props.

    I can see Upton being out of favor in AZ. He has been shouted out as the next coming of Griffey Jr. and that stuff can quickly go to a you man's head. Who knows, maybe him and Stephen "Mr. Glass" Drew became busom buddies and Stephen's baseball arrogance rubbed off on him. Whatever it is, there has been a Justin Upton trade rumor since last November. Maybe those initial rumors put Justin out and he is requesting a trade in secret. A few things are for sure: 1. He will not be traded to the Twins. 2. Whomever gets him has a player is probably getting a franchise type of player and most probably will take off. 3. AZ wants to see if they can shake him up and get him out of his current funk. No one wants to trade premium prospects anymore and AZ's return will probably be less than what could have been expected 2-4 years ago. I wouldn't trade Upton and neither will the Diamondbacks.

  9. #29
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    Hey River Brian. It is good to read your written word. Much props.

    I can see Upton being out of favor in AZ. He has been shouted out as the next coming of Griffey Jr. and that stuff can quickly go to a you man's head. Who knows, maybe him and Stephen "Mr. Glass" Drew became busom buddies and Stephen's baseball arrogance rubbed off on him. Whatever it is, there has been a Justin Upton trade rumor since last November. Maybe those initial rumors put Justin out and he is requesting a trade in secret. A few things are for sure: 1. He will not be traded to the Twins. 2. Whomever gets him has a player is probably getting a franchise type of player and most probably will take off. 3. AZ wants to see if they can shake him up and get him out of his current funk. No one wants to trade premium prospects anymore and AZ's return will probably be less than what could have been expected 2-4 years ago. I wouldn't trade Upton and neither will the Diamondbacks.
    Something is up. Especially for a team that... at least on paper... Doesn't appear to be that far off. No need for a fire sale. Good young pitching and exceptional pitching prospects behind that. The farm system is in good shape so you don't have a desperation restocking on your things to do list. The only real hole appears to be 3B... Join the club with that. A bunch of teams have holes at 3B.

    You list good reasons but it doesn't add up. I think we have a player out of favor. I won't be drafting him in fantasy baseball next year just in case.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    A few things are for sure... No one wants to trade premium prospects anymore
    The Tigers and Pirates, would beg to differ

  11. #31
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Why even respond to threads like this? Clearly lazy and glib. Maybe video game/fantasy informed? Two vets for one prospect? Ha!? Last time that happened, the Twins traded for Delmon Young (a rookie).

    The O's are not an old team, and will not bet the farm to improve current club, but they will trade from a position of strength, which might not be starting pitching.

    The Twins have rarely (if never, as far as I remember) eaten salary.

    Did i say: Why lend credence to poor conceived trade scenarios. I'm not sure why moderators care about tone than merit (but whatever).

  12. #32
    If JR could trade Liriano for Al Bundy, that would be great.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Why even respond to threads like this? Clearly lazy and glib. Maybe video game/fantasy informed? Two vets for one prospect? Ha!? Last time that happened, the Twins traded for Delmon Young (a rookie).

    The O's are not an old team, and will not bet the farm to improve current club, but they will trade from a position of strength, which might not be starting pitching.

    The Twins have rarely (if never, as far as I remember) eaten salary.

    Did i say: Why lend credence to poor conceived trade scenarios. I'm not sure why moderators care about tone than merit (but whatever).
    I agree with most of this except that last sentence. Are you saying the mods should delete threads that most people would beleive have no "merit"?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Something is up. Especially for a team that... at least on paper... Doesn't appear to be that far off. No need for a fire sale. Good young pitching and exceptional pitching prospects behind that. The farm system is in good shape so you don't have a desperation restocking on your things to do list. The only real hole appears to be 3B... Join the club with that. A bunch of teams have holes at 3B.

    You list good reasons but it doesn't add up. I think we have a player out of favor. I won't be drafting him in fantasy baseball next year just in case.
    I think it's partly out of favor but I think AZ is coming to the realization that he might not come close to all of that potential. The nagging injuries and the frequent slumps don't help either. I think the other reason that they might trade him is that maybe they can land a Machado type prospect and few other lesser prospects for him.

    Trading Willingham and Morneau for Bundy is just laughable. I have a hard time believing that the OP is serious. Yet, he is.

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I'm not sure why moderators care about tone than merit (but whatever).
    Bingo - this baffles me as well.

  16. #36
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I'm not sure why moderators care about tone than merit (but whatever).
    Because merit is completely subjective. It'd be great if all the stupid people left the internet forever but a lot of "stupidity" is actually just "ignorance". I was a dumb baseball poster when I started back in the late 90s. Most of us were pretty stupid back in the day. Over time, we took our lumps and became smarter baseball folks.

    On the other hand, calling someone a "****ing idiot" every other post is easily identified as inflammatory and unnecessary.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    The former trade idea is consistent with win-now, the latter, with win-later. If you have better ideas to float, than do.

    I think like some others-including prospective buyers ("pricey," "More pricey," "Made me laugh") that people over-value the Twins trade chips as the current CBA and contract situations stand. Thus I propose sign and trades wherever possible. A win-now trade for Upton could easily synergize with a return to form by Baker, Pavano, Gibson, Liriano and, combined with healthy seasons from key players (mauer, Willingham) could push this club back into the ALC lead.

    The worst would be for returning players to outperform expectations, and the FO stayed away contributors by being close-minded before the 2012 trade deadline. 2013 could look very different from 2011-2012, if the cards fall right. If the cards are wrong, then a firesale now would maximize returns for when a return to form is ripe - 2015-2016 most likely.

    One or the other, that is what I would like to know about. Since so much boom-or-bust depends on a few key players - Liriano, Baker, Gibson, Mauer, Morneau, Plouffe, esp. None are sure things, but all have high upside. If things break half/half, then we are like the White Sox cca. 2011-2012 - finishing just outside of contention. Something the Pohlads would certainly prefer to a firesale. Thus I am inquiring to those who want a firesale - what exactly should we do?
    This is a seriously worthless thread...

  18. #38
    I'm not trying to derail this thread so ignore me if needed but does anyone else think that Lavelle and Joe C. are being a bit lazy? I usually burn through my 20 articles on the Strib especially with what the Wild have done this year so I check the local guys twitter accounts alot. If it was this close to the NBA or NHL trade deadline Zgoda and Russo would seemingly be on there 24hrs a day but with Lavelle and Joe C. you get in game stuff some BBQ joint tips and nothing else. I don't need every rumor justified but people have to be asking these two questions that maybe they have an inside idea of don't they?

  19. #39
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr9617 View Post
    This is a seriously worthless thread...
    so you're saying we should start one about trading for Verlander right?

    /snark (because it appears to be necessary)

  20. #40
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Because merit is completely subjective. It'd be great if all the stupid people left the internet forever but a lot of "stupidity" is actually just "ignorance". I was a dumb baseball poster when I started back in the late 90s. Most of us were pretty stupid back in the day. Over time, we took our lumps and became smarter baseball folks.

    On the other hand, calling someone a "****ing idiot" every other post is easily identified as inflammatory and unnecessary.
    Not completely subjective, but I understand the dilemma. We had a system at byto and lots of boards have a place to put reckless threads. I think it's just as a inflammatory to start a new thread for whatever crazy trade idea pops in my head.

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