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Thread: In Defense of Drew

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    To be fair there is typically no reason to carry 3 catchers on a roster, however with Doumit and Mauer both being used as part time catchers this season it's not the worst idea in the world.

    However in seasons past when they carried 3 catchers....no comment!

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star
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    I think Drew has earned his place on the team.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer J-Dog Dungan's Avatar
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    While my dad may not agree with me, having that catcher that can come out and tell you what he is seeing and working with you on staying comfortable and relaxed on the mound is one of the greatest luxuries in baseball. The Twins are fortunate enough that they have catchers who are proficient at several different positions in the field so that they can still be in the lineup if Drew is the pitcher's "personal catcher" and getting 2-3 AB's at the bottom of the order. When Drew is working with certain pitchers, they seem to be slightly more effective than when others are catching him, not that Doumit and Mauer call bad games. This is why Gardy kept putting with Pavano the last few years, because Pavano felt the most comfy with him. Gardy is clearly comfortable sending Butera out to work with a pitcher that he feels isn't as comfortable with Doumit or Mauer, and he does call a good game.
    Last edited by J-Dog Dungan; 07-22-2012 at 07:02 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    If its a close game then it could be two at bats since you could just PH for him and put Mauer or Doumit behind the plate late in the game.
    Generally if the number 9 hitter on the Twins gets only three plate appearances the team did not do well that day. That is why you should be upset if the number9 hitter gets only three at bats. They have bigger problems than a part time number 9 hitter that can't hit the batboy's weight. If the pitchers on the team perform much better with Butera behind the plate, then play Butera. If Mauer is not as engaged as a catcher then perhaps it is time to move him.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Butera on the roster keeps Doumit out of RF and puts him in the DH spot when Doumit isn't catching himself.

    So... Stretching for a point I know. Butura on the roster improves this team by improving OF defense indirectly.

    I think the 3 catcher thing is unnecessary and I still do... but Gardy doesn't... So... if Butera makes it better... His presence on the roster is necessary.

    Going into the season... I wished real hard to never see Butera again.

    Right now... I can live with his current plate production and 3rd catcher role. Catchers do have an effect on pitcher performance... I won't go as far to say that Butera has positively improved pitcher performance but you can't discount Seth's point either.

    Go Drew!!! I apologize to you for my lack of patience earlier this year.

    Next year... There will most likely be a different context to consider... Not sure how I we feel about Drews role with the organization next year.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 07-22-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #26
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    Anyone wanna crunch the numbers and see what the average start IP is with Drew vs. without him? If Liriano gets 3+more outs with Butera, I'd say that's worth 3 sub-par ab's

    Don't forget too, that having that 3rd catcher keeps a good hitting catcher in the DH spot most of the time, rather than going back to those dark days of having Brendan Harris be our best DH option

  7. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Drew is a fine back-up to the back-up catcher.
    But the fact that the team is carrying so many pitchers and so many catchers makes the roster very limited. If this team was a contender he could not be on the team as his bench spot would be needed for an actual bat.
    Since the team stinks, its fine to keep him there and keep the wear and tear off Doumit and Mauer.

  8. #28
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Like Riverbrian, at the beginning of the year, i didn't really want to see Butera on the roster. For seemingly two years now, I have agreed with the sentiment that two catchers could play and if someone got hurt, Butera (or someone) could be up the next day. Now, when Mauer and Doumit are playing pretty much every single day, Butera is literally the backup catcher, so he's not wasting a roster spot.

    And finally, the point of this post was really just to give credit where credit is due... Deduno deserves credit. Anderson deserves credit. But Drew Butera also deserves a lot of credit as well.

  9. #29
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    But Drew Butera also deserves a lot of credit as well.
    Why? I brought up some of Drew's "accomplishments" earlier in the thread but nobody has responded to them. Why does Drew get credit for Liriano's resurgence but not the blame for his atrocious 2011 when he caught Liriano in ten of his awful starts? Why does Drew get credit for one good start from Deduno but not the blame for catching a 29th ranked pitching staff last season?

    Drew Butera is certainly a good defensive catcher. I don't think anyone here will argue that. But he is flat-out awful with a bat and he is not some kind of magical Latino Pitcher Whisperer. He doesn't work magic behind the plate; if he did, he would have worked some of that "magic" in previous seasons. On the other hand, he is a massive liability with the stick. Despite pitching like Cy Young over the past two months, Liriano is 3-9 on the season. In Liriano's ten starts since the demotion, the Twins have scored two or less runs four times.

    It's hard to make an argument that Butera is more of an asset behind the plate than he is a liability with the bat without putting on some serious blinders and ignoring what has happened on this team for the past 2 1/2 years.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Mr. Ed's Avatar
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    Butera is helpful behind the dish.

    On a team with a short bench to start with, he's an unnecessary luxury.
    How many times has Dozier(who I support) or Carroll come up and the situation screams pinch-hitter?

    And who do you have on the bench.

    Casilla
    Mastro
    Butera.

    THE WORST BENCH IN BASEBALL.

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Francisco Liriano made 24 starts in 2011. Drew Butera caught 10 of them, more than any other catcher.

    Liriano posted an ERA+ of 80.
    This, and the other stats you've posted... Perhaps there's something where his personality might work with one pitcher and not another, but I think a 1 game sample size with Deduno is hardly the evidence I need to say that Butera needs to be out there more often... If that's all it is, give the guy a coaching job and call it a day.

  12. #32
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    This thread makes me sad.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    This thread makes me sad.
    Ditto.

  14. #34
    My arguement, no way of knowing, is that if Drew were to be DFA....would a single team claim him? NO...& if they did, it would be to be a AAA C. He does not belong in the majors.
    Of course, its Drew is magic & there isnt a better defensive C in baseball right now....how cant we see how lucky we are???

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Francisco Liriano made 24 starts in 2011. Drew Butera caught 10 of them, more than any other catcher.

    Liriano posted an ERA+ of 80.
    I get what you're trying to say, but it seems like a composition error unless it can be further fleshed out. Just because Butera caught a plurality of Liriano's starts last year, and just because Liriano was bad last year, doesn't mean that Liriano is or isn't worse when Butera is behind the plate. If Liriano had a total ERA+ of 80 last year, and we later found out that when Butera was catching it was 120 and when others were catching it was 50, then your point wouldn't hold.

    All of this isn't to say that it's a necessarily invalid point, but if someone were to crunch some numbers (fair warning: I'm not gonna), we would have a definitive answer as to Butera's effectiveness viz. Liriano.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    I get what you're trying to say, but it seems like a composition error unless it can be further fleshed out. Just because Butera caught a plurality of Liriano's starts last year, and just because Liriano was bad last year, doesn't mean that Liriano is or isn't worse when Butera is behind the plate. If Liriano had a total ERA+ of 80 last year, and we later found out that when Butera was catching it was 120 and when others were catching it was 50, then your point wouldn't hold.

    All of this isn't to say that it's a necessarily invalid point, but if someone were to crunch some numbers (fair warning: I'm not gonna), we would have a definitive answer as to Butera's effectiveness viz. Liriano.
    In 2011 Butera caught 10 of Lirianos games. Liriano had a 5.85 ERA
    In 2011 Mauer caught 8 of his games. Liriano had a 5.31 ERA.

    Unless Butera taught Liriano how to add 3 MPH suddenly to his fastball, I can't give him that much credit for Liriano's turnaround this year. Could he effect it a bit? Sure, but not by large significant amount.

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Add on to last post:
    In 2010 Butera caught 8 of his games: 3.60 ERA
    In 2010 Mauer caught 20 of his games: 3.37 ERA

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    I do not think Drew Butera exists. I think this is some kind of classified government experiment to test the extremes of a baseball enthusiast's loyalty to their team. I feel assured we have been slipped some kind of drug that has long term lasting mental effects or have been implanted with a mind altering micro-chip. We as a whole need to rise above and fight our oppressors and regain 100% control of our mental functions. If we can achieve this victory, I believe we can all go back to living an enjoyable life that is free of the Fictional Drew Butera.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    In 2012:

    Mauer caught him 7 games(all of which before the "comeback" from the pen): 8.75 ERA
    Doumit 2 games: 10.57 ERA
    Butera: 12 games (10 of which were starts after he came back from the pen the other 2 were in the pen): 2.73 ERA

    Thus we can conclude 2 things from the all the numbers I posted in the past 3 posts:

    1. Mauer suddenly lost the ability to call a clean game.
    2. Butera isn't the main reason(or even close to the main reason) why Liriano is pitching well again.

  20. #40
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    I get what you're trying to say, but it seems like a composition error unless it can be further fleshed out. Just because Butera caught a plurality of Liriano's starts last year, and just because Liriano was bad last year, doesn't mean that Liriano is or isn't worse when Butera is behind the plate. If Liriano had a total ERA+ of 80 last year, and we later found out that when Butera was catching it was 120 and when others were catching it was 50, then your point wouldn't hold.

    All of this isn't to say that it's a necessarily invalid point, but if someone were to crunch some numbers (fair warning: I'm not gonna), we would have a definitive answer as to Butera's effectiveness viz. Liriano.
    To add on to Dave's posts, Drew was the primary catcher for the Twins last season (started 75 games, played in over 90) and the team ranked 29th in ERA despite playing in a ballpark that plays pretty damned big.

    Basically, people are just making up stuff so they feel better about the blight that is Drew Butera being in the lineup.

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