Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 57

Thread: StarTribune Article: "High Upside" Prospect the Focus in Any Deadline Trade

  1. #1

    StarTribune Article: "High Upside" Prospect the Focus in Any Deadline Trade

    Interesting read in the StarTribune today.

    The article basically says don't expect any deadline trade to produce pitching help for 2013. Terry Ryan states the Twins look for a "high ceiling guy" in such a trade. Given that teams are unlikely to give up such a player whose also major league ready, Ryan said the best target may be a Class A pitcher.

    The article also cites scouts as saying Brian Duensing has better overall stuff than Scott Diamond.

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/163133146.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,253
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Blog Entries
    1
    Ya, we all know that.

  3. #3
    This seems like the smartest plan. Look for young, affordable starting pitchers for 2014 and beyond (the years when guys like Miguel Sano, Aaron Hicks, Oswaldo Arcia, and others will also hopefully be young, affordable, and playing for the Twins).

    2013, though, is going to be another rough one!
    Andrew Walter
    Twins Fan From Afar
    Providing Twins and Rock Cats Coverage
    http://twinsfanfromafar.blogspot.com
    Follow me on Twitter: @MNfanfromafar

  4. #4
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,619
    Like
    1,117
    Liked 533 Times in 353 Posts
    Depressingly accurate. Next year is going to suck again.
    Lighten up Francis....

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,253
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Blog Entries
    1
    Another 5 years!

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,155
    Like
    1,232
    Liked 1,187 Times in 693 Posts
    I'm a little puzzled by why the Duensing/Diamond comment is there.

    Is this a warning that Diamond might regress? We all know that is a possibility.
    Is it a message to Duensing that he can do better?

    I didn't think there was an exact correlation between "stuff" and pitching success -- although better "stuff" certainly helps.

    Just not sure why that paragraph is there unless he just needed to say something about both of them but then couldn't complete the inference.

  7. #7
    I would be happy trading Frankie for one of the new competitive balance sandwich picks that are tradeable. Get the pick in the bag now before he regresses.

    This team won't be good for several years and the best way to try to acquire elite pitching is thru the draft.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
    Posts
    1,257
    Like
    77
    Liked 311 Times in 151 Posts
    I think it is a warning that getting by on so so stuff may not last. We have seen it before a pitcher or even hitters will look great for a time and the league will get a scouting report and they will came back to earth. Did Valencia forget how to hit or did the league find a better way to pitch him? Pitchers with so so stuff have to rely on location more and if that fine line of good location and poor location fades things can go south fast, we've seen that many times. Plouffe may be the same case no homeruns for some time, he's getting a lot fewer meatball fastballs. While his average is showing good signs the homeruns may be much farther apart from now on.

  9. #9
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,533
    Like
    61
    Liked 339 Times in 216 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    I would be happy trading Frankie for one of the new competitive balance sandwich picks that are tradeable. Get the pick in the bag now before he regresses.

    This team won't be good for several years and the best way to try to acquire elite pitching is thru the draft.
    I'd rather the other teams draft the pitchers and begin the development process, the Twins have not proven to be very good at it as of late.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I think it is a warning that getting by on so so stuff may not last. We have seen it before a pitcher or even hitters will look great for a time and the league will get a scouting report and they will came back to earth. Did Valencia forget how to hit or did the league find a better way to pitch him? Pitchers with so so stuff have to rely on location more and if that fine line of good location and poor location fades things can go south fast, we've seen that many times. Plouffe may be the same case no homeruns for some time, he's getting a lot fewer meatball fastballs. While his average is showing good signs the homeruns may be much farther apart from now on.
    That's how I read it also.

  11. #11
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,006
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,508 Times in 788 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I think it is a warning that getting by on so so stuff may not last. We have seen it before a pitcher or even hitters will look great for a time and the league will get a scouting report and they will came back to earth. Did Valencia forget how to hit or did the league find a better way to pitch him? Pitchers with so so stuff have to rely on location more and if that fine line of good location and poor location fades things can go south fast, we've seen that many times. Plouffe may be the same case no homeruns for some time, he's getting a lot fewer meatball fastballs. While his average is showing good signs the homeruns may be much farther apart from now on.
    Yep. Contact guys are rarely above average pitchers for extended periods of time unless they have an absurd ground ball rate to back up the lack of strikeouts.

    I fully expect Diamond to regress. I only hope that his regression isn't Blackburn-esque. I don't think it will be because his K rate is 5.1/9 (Blackburn's career high was 4.6/9 last season), which isn't completely awful, just bad.

    Some guys can survive as league-average pitchers with the occasional above-average season with that kind of K rate, even if they don't induce a ton of grounders. Brad Radke was one of those guys. Diamond induces a lot of ground balls right now but even if that lets up a bit, there's a chance he will still be a serviceable pitcher.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    839
    Like
    408
    Liked 76 Times in 57 Posts
    Suckage is one way to look at 2013, but I see a half full glass. Why? We may see some very fun glimpses of a bright future. I'm very excited to see who, among a very promising group, shows they belong with the big club. I will choose to look for improved play from the likes of Revere, Hendriks, Plouffe, Parmelee, Dozier, Robertson, Oliveros, and others. Who will see big league time among Benson, Arcia, Hicks, Tosoni, Guerra, Hermsen, Gutierrez, Wimmers, Bromberg, Waldrop, Herrmann, and others? Will we enjoy continued improvement due to Terry Ryan's moves? Some of us have gotten some satisfaction from the improved lineup and bullpen this year. Are you at least optimistic about Sano, Rosario, Salcedo, Kepler, Buxton, Berrios, Melotakis, Goodrum, and others? It's OK to be reaistic, to expect some failures but there should be some good news too. Enjoy!

    2011 was almost invariably unwatchable. 2012? Watchable quite often. 2013 is not going to suck for a lot of us, and I hope some of you choose to come along for the ride instead of looking for the inevitable sources of bad news.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'd rather the other teams draft the pitchers and begin the development process, the Twins have not proven to be very good at it as of late.


    Very true but I am hoping Ryan is truely an interim GM and by next draft we have a new GM and a completely overhauled scouting department.

  14. #14
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,619
    Like
    1,117
    Liked 533 Times in 353 Posts
    I can be optimistic about 2014, bit who is going to pay target field prices to watch them lose 90 games the third year in a row. The declining attendance will create a negative feedback loop on the payroll, imo....
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,135
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    34
    Liked 432 Times in 262 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    Suckage is one way to look at 2013, but I see a half full glass. Why? We may see some very fun glimpses of a bright future. I'm very excited to see who, among a very promising group, shows they belong with the big club. I will choose to look for improved play from the likes of Revere, Hendriks, Plouffe, Parmelee, Dozier, Robertson, Oliveros, and others. Who will see big league time among Benson, Arcia, Hicks, Tosoni, Guerra, Hermsen, Gutierrez, Wimmers, Bromberg, Waldrop, Herrmann, and others? Will we enjoy continued improvement due to Terry Ryan's moves? Some of us have gotten some satisfaction from the improved lineup and bullpen this year. Are you at least optimistic about Sano, Rosario, Salcedo, Kepler, Buxton, Berrios, Melotakis, Goodrum, and others? It's OK to be reaistic, to expect some failures but there should be some good news too. Enjoy!

    2011 was almost invariably unwatchable. 2012? Watchable quite often. 2013 is not going to suck for a lot of us, and I hope some of you choose to come along for the ride instead of looking for the inevitable sources of bad news.
    This assumes that the braintrust does not go out and sign the likes of Marquis and a bunch of washed up AAA/AAAA MiLB FA Ps to add to the rotation... Unfortunately, this has been the "Twins' way". And, unfortunately, I am not confident that this club can complete unless there is infusion of new blood and ideas from top to bottom from outside the organization. The "Twins way" and the stale old people who are running the team is the root cause of the problem here. Lack of MLB-ready SPs in the organization, non-competition the last few years with one and outs before are just the symptoms...
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  16. #16
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,006
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,508 Times in 788 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I can be optimistic about 2014, bit who is going to pay target field prices to watch them lose 90 games the third year in a row. The declining attendance will create a negative feedback loop on the payroll, imo....
    Agreed. It's probably the biggest problem with an aggressive rebuilding plan. It's tough to get fans interested in a team again after they have been awful for 3+ seasons.

    While JR says that high upside, low minors guys are the best option (and I agree with him), it's still a bitter pill to swallow.

    And if this team is going to lose big in 2013, I think it's probably a good idea that everyone and everything goes. If the team has no hope next season, what is the point of keeping Morneau, Willingham, and Doumit when they're all worth something (well, maybe not Morneau)?

    Unless JR has big plans for this offseason but I don't see the Twins diving into the market and making a real splash.

    Dunno. Lots of variables to consider here and without knowing the overall plan, it's hard to say much of anything.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,135
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    34
    Liked 432 Times in 262 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post

    And if this team is going to lose big in 2013, I think it's probably a good idea that everyone and everything goes. If the team has no hope next season, what is the point of keeping Morneau, Willingham, and Doumit when they're all worth something (well, maybe not Morneau)?
    .
    Bingo. But that is not "the Twins' way". They like to do things their own half-rear end way. I would not be surprised if Ryan picks Capps' option for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Unless JR has big plans for this offseason but I don't see the Twins diving into the market and making a real splash.
    .
    Ewing?
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  18. #18
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    839
    Like
    408
    Liked 76 Times in 57 Posts
    thrlyos, the Twins did not sign a bunch of washed up FA's in 2012, did they? Your "Twins Way" schtick is old news. The "Twins Way" is actually happenning much differently than you portray using pre-Target Field examples. What I assume is they'll sign at least one Shaun Marcum-type free agent. They'll be better. They'll be more fun to watch. They'll probably struggle to be a .500 team. But the thing that we can surely count on is that you'll ignore all the Willingham, Burton, Doumit moves and continue to use the Marquis backfire, or some other move you hate, to make your case. Yawn.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    thrlyos, the Twins did not sign a bunch of washed up FA's in 2012, did they? Your "Twins Way" schtick is old news. The "Twins Way" is actually happenning much differently than you portray using pre-Target Field examples. What I assume is they'll sign at least one Shaun Marcum-type free agent. They'll be better. They'll be more fun to watch. They'll probably struggle to be a .500 team. But the thing that we can surely count on is that you'll ignore all the Willingham, Burton, Doumit moves and continue to use the Marquis backfire, or some other move you hate, to make your case. Yawn.

    I agree with Thyros. Other than Willingham, none of the offseason signings were made to make the team better beyond 2012. The other signings were bargin bin stop gaps and in the case of Burton it turned out great. Doumit was a great signing but extending a part timer on a 100 loss team hardly makes sense. The rest of the signings were like setting money on fire buying washed up vets to fill spots that should be occupied by cheap young talent from the minors. This gets back to the main issue that TR and his scouting staff have done a horrendous job of drafting and scouting for the last 10 years.

  20. #20
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,006
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    47
    Liked 1,508 Times in 788 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    This gets back to the main issue that TR and his scouting staff have done a horrendous job of drafting and scouting for the last 10 years.
    You keep saying it but it's still not true. The Twins have been entirely mediocre with their scouting and drafting. A mid-market team needs to be better than mediocre to compete but that still doesn't mean they've been "horrendous".

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.