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Thread: Action Plan for the Second Half of 2012--Part 3

  1. #1
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Action Plan for the Second Half of 2012--Part 3

    Clear a spot in the outfield for a hitter

    The Twins currently start two outfielders, Span and Revere, who have good batting averages but slugging percentages under .400 and very low power numbers. It is my belief that they can't be serious about contending with two such starters in the outfield. Also, they have substandard to nonexistent power at other positions--2nd base and SS--so that too high a percentage of their home runs comes from two players--Plouffe and Willingham. They need extra base power from both corner OF spots and they won't get it with Revere.

    Span is a prototypical leadoff hitter, a speedy runner, and a good center fielder. He hits lefties very well, so that he isn't a candidate to be platooned. He has a long-term contract that is regarded as "team-friendly" and he is 28 years old. Span has shown that he can play any of the outfield positions well. He missed a lot of time with concussion/vertigo issues last year, but those problems appear to be in his rear-view mirror.


    Revere is an aggressive swinging singles hitter with tremendous speed. His speed helps him get on base, disrupts opponents when he gets on base, and allows him to roam far and wide to run down balls in the outfield. He also carries two big negatives--he doesn't drive the ball often enough for outfielders to play him honest and he has a weak throwing arm allowing others to take extra bases. This season, Revere is hitting well over .300 and has shown he can go get 'em in the outfield.

    I think that Revere has shown enough that the Twins should proceed with trading Span. They need to get good value in what comes back, hopefully in areas of need. Revere would succeed Span as the leadoff guy and while he wouldn't work the count like Span does, he has shown the ability to get on base and he has shown he can steal bases and distract opponents.


    For the short term a Span trade would get Revere's superior range in center field and most likely a less adept fielder in right field. Long term, the Twins have several candidates for center and the corners who could provide more punch but still provide good defense and range. A Span trade would put Revere in his natural position, potentially add talent to a position of weakness, and provide a position for another hitter with power on the team. Unless Revere goes in the tank or no one offers enough for Span, I think the incumbent Twins' center fielder should be moved.

  2. #2
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Torii Hunter seems like the obvious stop-gap choice for a corner outfield spot until one of the prospects is ready. I'm becoming more sold on the idea every day.

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    I'm of the opinion that you trade teh more valuable piece, which I assume to be Span at this point... but if you get better offers from Revere, I would trade Revere in a heartbeat. Hunter makes sense from a stop gap solution, but there's also a Parmalee problem. Where you do you play him? I could buy letting him sit in AAA this year, but I'd have a tough time believing you will need to justify it this and next season. Morneau has 1B through next year. Mauer and Doumit will occupy the DH spot quite a bit. Perhaps you clear the OF spot and let Chris play in right for the forseable future? Just a thought.

  4. #4
    Torii Hunter? Are people serious? The Twins have 5 or 6 highly regarded minor league prospects who can play right field, or CF and keep Revere in RF where his range overcomes his arm 3 or 4 plays to 1, and my guess is every one of those prospects will be a better major leaguer than Torii H in 2014 given the opportunity to play the position and get 400+ ABs in 2013. Going with Torii would be expensive and short-term, and this team is NOT in a short-term mode from anything they've shown lately.

    Trade Span and Danny V, sure, and Liriano maybe, if the return warrants it, for pitching and if possible a shortstop who can really play the position and stay above the Mendoza line with or without pop in his bat but defensively strong, and the rest of the lineup (C/Mauer, 1B/Morneau, 2B/Casilla until some kid is ready, 3B/Plouffe, SS/get-or-find-somebody!, LF/Josh, CF-RF/Hicks-Benson-Revere, DH/Doumit) with better starting pitching is enough. It may take a few years to build the rotation. Now would be the time to start giving younger players an opportunity to get the plate appearances it takes to move from rookie to novice to reliable contributor.

    No reason to expect this team to win 90 games this year or next, but getting this club into a position where it might be able to do that next year, and can be expected to do that 2 years from here, that's the challenge. And that isn't going to happen by giving Torii Hunter a job next year which could go to some deserving talented hungry soon-to-be-much-better-than Torii kid.

  5. #5
    Hicks needs AAA, Arcia might still be at AA, Benson will need to start next year AAA given his injury has set him back this year. Torii Hunter makes perfect sense as a stop gap for 1-2 years, he can start at RF and move around as needed, and gets to retire as a Twin. Has value has dwindled a bit and he's going to be 37 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snortwood View Post
    Torii Hunter? Are people serious? The Twins have 5 or 6 highly regarded minor league prospects who can play right field, or CF and keep Revere in RF where his range overcomes his arm 3 or 4 plays to 1, and my guess is every one of those prospects will be a better major leaguer than Torii H in 2014 given the opportunity to play the position and get 400+ ABs in 2013. Going with Torii would be expensive and short-term, and this team is NOT in a short-term mode from anything they've shown lately.

    Trade Span and Danny V, sure, and Liriano maybe, if the return warrants it, for pitching and if possible a shortstop who can really play the position and stay above the Mendoza line with or without pop in his bat but defensively strong, and the rest of the lineup (C/Mauer, 1B/Morneau, 2B/Casilla until some kid is ready, 3B/Plouffe, SS/get-or-find-somebody!, LF/Josh, CF-RF/Hicks-Benson-Revere, DH/Doumit) with better starting pitching is enough. It may take a few years to build the rotation. Now would be the time to start giving younger players an opportunity to get the plate appearances it takes to move from rookie to novice to reliable contributor.

    No reason to expect this team to win 90 games this year or next, but getting this club into a position where it might be able to do that next year, and can be expected to do that 2 years from here, that's the challenge. And that isn't going to happen by giving Torii Hunter a job next year which could go to some deserving talented hungry soon-to-be-much-better-than Torii kid.
    Of those talented outfielders only Benson realistically could be ready and he'd have to show that his first half was behind him. Hicks only has 1/2 year at AA at this point and while he is playing well in NB he certainly isn't killing it so counting on him to start in RF next year is asking too much of a 22 year old kid. Arcia, Rosario, Sano, etc... are even farther out and may not even be in the outfield by the time they hit the majors. At this point it certainly seems that the Twins will need a veteran to fill in the first half of the year at a minimum. Of course this could all change if Benson comes out swinging in the second half and gets quality at bats in at AAA still this year.

  7. #7
    Just throwing out this but the Twins could move Plouffe to right feild and bring back up Danny Valencia for 3rd. If we trade Span or Reeve it should be for a major league ready starting pitcher. I've mentioned James Shields before. The Nationals need a center fielder. They got John Lannan in the minors. He had a decent year last year. He's also got some years of arb control for the Twins. He's not a top of the rotation guy but when have the Twins gone after top tier pitching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireflyfan View Post
    Just throwing out this but the Twins could move Plouffe to right feild and bring back up Danny Valencia for 3rd. If we trade Span or Reeve it should be for a major league ready starting pitcher. I've mentioned James Shields before. The Nationals need a center fielder. They got John Lannan in the minors. He had a decent year last year. He's also got some years of arb control for the Twins. He's not a top of the rotation guy but when have the Twins gone after top tier pitching?
    Just what this team needs is Nick Blackburn 2.0 for their best trade chip. Brilliant.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fireflyfan View Post
    Just throwing out this but the Twins could move Plouffe to right feild and bring back up Danny Valencia for 3rd. If we trade Span or Reeve it should be for a major league ready starting pitcher. I've mentioned James Shields before. The Nationals need a center fielder. They got John Lannan in the minors. He had a decent year last year. He's also got some years of arb control for the Twins. He's not a top of the rotation guy but when have the Twins gone after top tier pitching?
    No, you don't move Plouffe. He's been comfortable at 3rd and is more valuable there than in the corner. Don't wanna mess up a good thing when you got it. Plus Danny V has done nothing to warrant being called back up.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    LOL at the thought of trading for John freaking Lanahan, at this point you could get him for nothing if you agreed to pick up his salary.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    No. No. No. The Twins adding OFs is ridiculous. The entirety of the effort here forward must be devoted to starting pitching. Then they should simply figure out what to do about the MI (Florimon at SS, Dozier at 2B, and Carroll at UTIL). This is all that matters. The Twins fixing this problem means 12-15 games.

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    Parmelee should start in lf or rf next season just to see if he can play.

  13. #13
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Right Field Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    Parmelee should start in lf or rf next season just to see if he can play.
    If Span is moved, I wouldn't mind seeing how Parmelee can do in RF. Other candidates off the top of my head--Wilken Ramirez, Matt Carson, Plouffe, Doumit, and Mastroianni (another light hitting speed guy). I was hoping Joe Benson would be ready at midseason this year, but his year has been a disaster and he's trying to get it going with the Miracle.

  14. #14
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Parmelee has less than 100 AAA ABs and is only 24. Justin Morneau is entering the last year of his contract.

    Chris can sit in Rochester for the rest of the year and hopefully, he'll start getting prepared for first base duties after Justin is gone. There's no reason to shuffle him around the diamond when there's a good chance the team needs a first baseman for 2014 and beyond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Parmelee has less than 100 AAA ABs and is only 24. Justin Morneau is entering the last year of his contract.

    Chris can sit in Rochester for the rest of the year and hopefully, he'll start getting prepared for first base duties after Justin is gone. There's no reason to shuffle him around the diamond when there's a good chance the team needs a first baseman for 2014 and beyond.
    Justin is most likely going to be here still next year as well though. At a minimum he will likely man first base for the first half of 2013 trying to drive his trade value or if he is back to Justin of old because we're looking to resign him. So where do you put Parmelee for the first half of next season? Do you let him ride out ANOTHER half season at AAA? Does he come up and just sit on the bench?

  16. #16
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    Justin is most likely going to be here still next year as well though. At a minimum he will likely man first base for the first half of 2013 trying to drive his trade value or if he is back to Justin of old because we're looking to resign him. So where do you put Parmelee for the first half of next season? Do you let him ride out ANOTHER half season at AAA? Does he come up and just sit on the bench?
    I say you start grooming Chris to be the first baseman of the future and let the chips fall where they may. If Justin has a good season in 2013, yay. A win. If he doesn't, Chris is ready to start taking playing time from him and you start platooning the two players into the 1B/DH role at some point next season.

    Worst case scenario is that you have performing first basemen in Minnesota and Rochester, which is a good problem to have. If neither performs, then you know you need outside help going forward.

    The Twins have lots and lots of outfielders. They don't have any first basemen.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer J-Dog Dungan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Clear a spot in the outfield for a hitter

    The Twins currently start two outfielders, Span and Revere, who have good batting averages but slugging percentages under .400 and very low power numbers. It is my belief that they can't be serious about contending with two such starters in the outfield. Also, they have substandard to nonexistent power at other positions--2nd base and SS--so that too high a percentage of their home runs comes from two players--Plouffe and Willingham. They need extra base power from both corner OF spots and they won't get it with Revere.

    Span is a prototypical leadoff hitter, a speedy runner, and a good center fielder. He hits lefties very well, so that he isn't a candidate to be platooned. He has a long-term contract that is regarded as "team-friendly" and he is 28 years old. Span has shown that he can play any of the outfield positions well. He missed a lot of time with concussion/vertigo issues last year, but those problems appear to be in his rear-view mirror.


    Revere is an aggressive swinging singles hitter with tremendous speed. His speed helps him get on base, disrupts opponents when he gets on base, and allows him to roam far and wide to run down balls in the outfield. He also carries two big negatives--he doesn't drive the ball often enough for outfielders to play him honest and he has a weak throwing arm allowing others to take extra bases. This season, Revere is hitting well over .300 and has shown he can go get 'em in the outfield.

    I think that Revere has shown enough that the Twins should proceed with trading Span. They need to get good value in what comes back, hopefully in areas of need. Revere would succeed Span as the leadoff guy and while he wouldn't work the count like Span does, he has shown the ability to get on base and he has shown he can steal bases and distract opponents.


    For the short term a Span trade would get Revere's superior range in center field and most likely a less adept fielder in right field. Long term, the Twins have several candidates for center and the corners who could provide more punch but still provide good defense and range. A Span trade would put Revere in his natural position, potentially add talent to a position of weakness, and provide a position for another hitter with power on the team. Unless Revere goes in the tank or no one offers enough for Span, I think the incumbent Twins' center fielder should be moved.
    1) Why do they need Span and Revere to hit home runs if they get on base at really high clips
    2) When they get on base, they are good table setters for Plouffe and Willingham
    3) Teams don't need too many power hitters, otherwise a team will have the stats of Mark Reynolds a lot of HR's, but a HELL of a lot of K's.
    4) Revere's arm has very rarely cost the Twins anything this year; I am sure that they would prefer his range to having a Torii Hunter-esqe arm
    5) Why is right field weak?
    6) The Twins need pitching so much more than they need a right fielder, it is not even funny. Trade Span for pitching before trading him for a RF
    7) The Twins have several power hitters in Morneau, Willinghammer, Plouffe, as well as Mauer and Doumit to a certain extent. Honestly, that is all the power a team needs. As much as a team needs guys who can hit the ball out of the ballpark, said team also needs guys who are good at getting on base to set up said power hitters.
    8) The Twins need pitching more than a RF if they were to deal Span or Willingham. They have outfielders galore in the minors; get over wishing the Twins had another one.

  18. #18
    I don't see clearing an outfield position as a NEED, but if the Twins can improve their middle infield or starting pitching by trading a current outfielder, they have to consider it. I find it hilarious that people think the Twins HAVE to trade an outfielder when in fact, they should only do so if they get a solid offer which improves some key areas of this team that are lacking.

  19. #19
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    I don't thnk Hunter's coming back unless the Twins look like a contender, and they won't. That being said, if Span gets moved, I could totally see the Twins going after him. Everyone thought the Twins had the outfield covered this year when people were excited about Span plus a combo of Revere, Benson, Parmelee and Plouffe. The Twins inked Willingham anyway and as it turned out, it was a much needed signing.

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    I think some people are missing an obvious solution as well. Say you trade Span and get some pitching. Good, we need pitching. You move Revere to CF and you can put Parmelee at RF. It's not a bad option. Parmelee gets his ML at bats and plays a position he's familiar with. Later, if they trade Morneau, you move Parmelee to 1B and bring up someone like Hicks or Aracia.

    If Span is not traded... Good, we have Span, who is good at CF and being a lead off hitter.
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

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