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Thread: Midseason Rankings - Hitters

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    Midseason Rankings - Hitters

    Reading up on Hicks got me thinking that the Twins farm system is actually in pretty solid shape when it comes to bats. Since it is the all star break thought it might be a good time to put together a top ten list and see what others think as well. Here are my top ten hitters:

    1. Sano - Too much power.
    2. Buxton - This is based on the likes of Law and others. Not going to worry too much about his numbers this year, going to stick with his elite tools.
    3. Hicks - Is hitting well and is a plus defender at a premium position.
    4. Rosario - Injury set him back, but seemed like he was holding own at 2B.
    5. Arcia - Could be anywhere after Sano and I wouldn't argue.
    6. Benson - Disaster of a season so far, but won't completely ignore all that happened before.
    7. Goodrum - This is a personal preference. Still think he can stick at short.
    8. Harrison - Bat seems legit but concerned that he is already destined for 1B.
    9. Michael - I still think he is legit and will have a good second half.
    10. Hermann - Catching keeps him in top 10.

    HM (above rookie ball): Ortiz, Santana

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I know I'll get flamed for this, but no way Buxton rankes ahead of Hicks, Rosario, and Arcia.... could argue Benson too, though I'll give you that since he's had a horrible season. I'd add Koch to the HM list as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Reading up on Hicks got me thinking that the Twins farm system is actually in pretty solid shape when it comes to bats. Since it is the all star break thought it might be a good time to put together a top ten list and see what others think as well. Here are my top ten hitters:

    1. Sano - Too much power.
    2. Buxton - This is based on the likes of Law and others. Not going to worry too much about his numbers this year, going to stick with his elite tools.
    3. Hicks - Is hitting well and is a plus defender at a premium position.
    4. Rosario - Injury set him back, but seemed like he was holding own at 2B.
    5. Arcia - Could be anywhere after Sano and I wouldn't argue.
    6. Benson - Disaster of a season so far, but won't completely ignore all that happened before.
    7. Goodrum - This is a personal preference. Still think he can stick at short.
    8. Harrison - Bat seems legit but concerned that he is already destined for 1B.
    9. Michael - I still think he is legit and will have a good second half.
    10. Hermann - Catching keeps him in top 10.

    HM (above rookie ball): Ortiz, Santana
    I think this is a good list, more or less. Obviously Buxton's not as far as the rest but his upside and talent level is as good as any. I like the addition of Goodrum, too. He's a nice sleeper. Another HM might be Nate Roberts, I like him a lot but it's disappointing that he's at Beloit. Harrison is exciting.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I think you've got a prospect list here, which is a good one. It would be different to strictly have a top performers list and it should be. It's a good list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I know I'll get flamed for this, but no way Buxton rankes ahead of Hicks, Rosario, and Arcia.... could argue Benson too, though I'll give you that since he's had a horrible season. I'd add Koch to the HM list as well.
    I don't think your position regarding Buxton is unreasonable. The top 5 could go any way depending on preferences and what you want to emphasize.

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    I'm the same way about prospects. Buxton wont be near the top until he has some results. Right now he is only a bunch of tools.

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    I'm the same way about prospects. Buxton wont be near the top until he has some results. Right now he is only a bunch of tools.
    It's really unfair to judge his current results, heck most #2 picks in past years wouldn't even be playing ball until August or 2013. Buxton undoubtedly has the 2nd highest upside of all Twins prospects. If you want to rank him #3 behind Sano and Arcia I understand that, but having him below Hicks and Rosario seems a little to heavily invested in experience at this point.

    IMO we have the following at this point but I admit I am a huge Homer so take these with a slight grain of salt:
    Sano- top 15-20 prospect in baseball.
    Buxton- Top 20-30prospect in baseball
    Arcia- Top 40-50 prospect in baseball
    Hicks- Top 50-60 prospect in baseball
    Rosario- Top 60-75 prospect in baseball (Could be higher without the injury)


    Also if Gibson proves healthy/back to normal there is no reason why he can't be back in close to the 50 as well.

  8. #8
    Myself, I would like to think that Adam Walker is gonna be on the top 10 list by the end of the season.....ahead of Hermann & Michaels for sure, possibly Goodrum also.

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    It's really unfair to judge his current results, heck most #2 picks in past years wouldn't even be playing ball until August or 2013. Buxton undoubtedly has the 2nd highest upside of all Twins prospects. If you want to rank him #3 behind Sano and Arcia I understand that, but having him below Hicks and Rosario seems a little to heavily invested in experience at this point.

    IMO we have the following at this point but I admit I am a huge Homer so take these with a slight grain of salt:
    Sano- top 15-20 prospect in baseball.
    Buxton- Top 20-30prospect in baseball
    Arcia- Top 40-50 prospect in baseball
    Hicks- Top 50-60 prospect in baseball
    Rosario- Top 60-75 prospect in baseball (Could be higher without the injury)


    Also if Gibson proves healthy/back to normal there is no reason why he can't be back in close to the 50 as well.
    So Hicks was getting love the past few years for his tools and now that he is actually producing Buxton gets a nod in front of him? I'm not counting anything against him for lack of experience, I can't consider someone to be better than somebody without actually proving it. Sano, Arcia, Rosario and now Hicks have all shown promise to be MLB regulars, Buxton hasn't shown it yet. Look at it this way, these guys have shown they could be an All-Star down the road (getting there is obviously another conversation) and Buxton hasn't had the opportunity. You can rank him above Benson right now because Benson has had a rough time making adjustments and hurts his potential going forward.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    It's really unfair to judge his current results, heck most #2 picks in past years wouldn't even be playing ball until August or 2013. Buxton undoubtedly has the 2nd highest upside of all Twins prospects. If you want to rank him #3 behind Sano and Arcia I understand that, but having him below Hicks and Rosario seems a little to heavily invested in experience at this point.

    IMO we have the following at this point but I admit I am a huge Homer so take these with a slight grain of salt:
    Sano- top 15-20 prospect in baseball.
    Buxton- Top 20-30prospect in baseball
    Arcia- Top 40-50 prospect in baseball
    Hicks- Top 50-60 prospect in baseball
    Rosario- Top 60-75 prospect in baseball (Could be higher without the injury)


    Also if Gibson proves healthy/back to normal there is no reason why he can't be back in close to the 50 as well.
    5 guys in the top 100? Seems a bit optimistic given that not all of those guys even made Sickles top 120 (though I wonder if Hicks would be on there had he done it a bit later).

    I just have a tough time ranking any tools guy that high when there's 1) no data to work with and 2) he's so far down. If he was a college prospect who has excelled against tougher competition, I could buy it, but the kid is fresh out of highschool playing and put up gaudy HS stats against pretty weak competition. As such, I fail to see how Buxton is a top 20-30 prospect (even though in this area I do think that's where a lot of people will grade him). If he blows up the GCL, I'd be willing to rethink that, but otherwise, he's probably the fifth prospect in this list, and you could argue 6th depending on what you think of Benson.

    Likewise, I fail to see the heavy on experience side of things when all of these guys have had success being far younger than the average person in their leagues. It isn't as if Hicks is 27 and raking in AA or that Rosario only has 1 tool. With the exception of Sano, they all have 5 tools (though Sano's power tool more than makes up for his lack of speed). Yes Buxtons tools may be better, but they are also much less polished.

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    There are 3 guys in Sickel's top 64 and Hicks was in the top125 or HM's so it's not that crazy. Buxton will almost definitely be top 50. Gibson could also shoot up lists if he looks decent. And Harrison (and possibly goodrum) could find himself on lists also. I don't really think 5 guys in the top 100 is overly optimistic.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I know I'll get flamed for this, but no way Buxton rankes ahead of Hicks, Rosario, and Arcia.... could argue Benson too, though I'll give you that since he's had a horrible season. I'd add Koch to the HM list as well.

    Really? There's "no way" Buxton ranks ahead of those guys? When ESPN, BA, and others release their mid-season rankings, I would say its nearly a guarantee Buxton is top 3 in Org. I will take the scouts opinion over someone who is more than likely looking at Buxtons stats thru 3 weeks of his pro career

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    Senior Member Double-A MWLFan's Avatar
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    I always am reluctant to do lists as people seem to take offense if your view doesn't match theirs all the time. So much of this is subjective and can people just repeat what others say or what they want people to say. That being said I will do a quick rating of the best hitters I have seen move through Beloit as Snappers. I am not taking into account what happened past Beloit, but just what I have seen here.

    1.) Sano. Really scary power. Ouch. Saw Morneau at QC years ago. Sano more advanced and more power.
    2.) Revere. Flat out could hit line drives and beat the ball into the ground and out run the throw.
    3.) Arcia. Best swing I have seen here. Sweet. Nice corner outfielder. Only saw him swing, never played field here. Did his damage while having a bad shoulder. Mauer at QC had better swing. That is about it from what I have seen.
    4.) Rosario. Want him back. If he stays at 2nd could be a very special player. Could be 2nd best guy at that position in Twins history. Better then Knoblauch. But long way to go.
    5.) Parmalee. Next to Sano best power. But way down the list in that regard. Sano on a whole different level.
    6.) Angel Morales. Lost in the minors now, but a real good player for the Snappers. Great tools. Lost opportunity here.
    7.) Danny Ortiz. Compact player with tight powerful swing. Gets through the zone quick. Sneaky prospect.
    8.) Hicks. Plate discipline and speed get him on this list. He could work a count better then any player I have seen here. Sometimes worked against him as he had a better eye then the umps.
    9.) Matt Koch. I like him. Has decent gap power and his bat is quicker then I would have thought. Could be me just taking someone I have seen recently, but he has some upside. A+ and AA will be interesting to watch him.
    10.) James Beresford. Probably a little emotional here. Like this kid a lot. He is all of what is mocked and ridiculed by posters online. Scrappy, tough, overachieving, underdog, high motor, gets after it. You know Punto like. But he is the one shortstop that really imppressed me with his discipline, leadership, glove, deameanor and he could put the ball in play. No power, not that fast, and needed to work on plate discipline. But the Aussie just strikes me as a baseball player first athlete second.

    Not on list-

    Benson. I only saw a few flashes of his potential here. Most of what I saw from his was his defense in center and left. That was the Wow factor. Bat had not showed power yet.
    Plouffe- Cluster at short here. Bat was a problem and the errors were a issue. Sano light without the bat. Always like him thought he came across as a real good guy and class act.
    Hermann- Never got to see him much. No opinion.
    Santana- Thought Beresford outplayed him frankly.
    Henry Sanchez- Just kidding. Saw him in uniform one time I think.
    Matt Moses- A little QC Love. Great swing. Head, well that may have been another thing. Hit the one of the hardest balls I have seen in A ball one day. Line drive to Centerfield off the batters eye in QC that must have left a mark. Only Sano, Trout and Moustatkis have hit ones harder when I have been around. Just a rocket. Then preceded to strike out the rest of the weekend.

    These are just my impressions of guys in a one or two year window. (Some like Arcia, Rosario and Sano less.) As such have no heft beyond the confines of Pohlmann Field.
    Last edited by MWLFan; 07-11-2012 at 12:32 PM.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alarp33 View Post
    Really? There's "no way" Buxton ranks ahead of those guys? When ESPN, BA, and others release their mid-season rankings, I would say its nearly a guarantee Buxton is top 3 in Org. I will take the scouts opinion over someone who is more than likely looking at Buxtons stats thru 3 weeks of his pro career
    yes, I recognize this which is why I said that I know everyone will disagree... but these guys all heavily base things off of tools... and just tools.... and no performance. Arcia, Benson, and Hicks all have tools as well, and yes, Buxton may have better tools, but those 3 have also preformed pretty well also against much more talented competition. As such, I don't understand how it is that Buxton will rate right under Sano. He shoudln't... not until he gets some results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    I'm not counting anything against him for lack of experience, I can't consider someone to be better than somebody without actually proving it.
    Sounds to me like it's a difference of how one weights ceiling versus floor, with current results mixed in to taste. Buxton could still be an absolute bust, while Hicks may or may not make it to the majors but is showing an ability to master a certain level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MWLFan View Post
    I always am reluctant to do lists as people seem to take offense if your view doesn't match theirs all the time.
    Grow a thick hide. Like I have not.

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    As crazy as it might seem to some, I'd put Buxton number 1. I love Sano's potential and power, but I think in the long run I'll take Buxton's combination or speed, defense, arm and baserunning over Sano who is gonna be a bat-first clogger by the time he gets to the majors.

    It's all potential at this point, but that's my personal feelings.

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    Senior Member Double-A MWLFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Grow a thick hide. Like I have not.

    My waistline would resemble that remark.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWLFan View Post
    I always am reluctant to do lists as people seem to take offense if your view doesn't match theirs all the time. So much of this is subjective and can people just repeat what others say or what they want people to say. That being said I will do a quick rating of the best hitters I have seen move through Beloit as Snappers. I am not taking into account what happened past Beloit, but just what I have seen here.

    1.) Sano. Really scary power. Ouch. Saw Morneau at QC years ago. Sano more advanced and more power.
    2.) Revere. Flat out could hit line drives and beat the ball into the ground and out run the throw.
    3.) Arcia. Best swing I have seen here. Sweet. Nice corner outfielder. Only saw him swing, never played field here. Did his damage while having a bad shoulder. Mauer at QC had better swing. That is about it from what I have seen.
    4.) Rosario. Want him back. If he stays at 2nd could be a very special player. Could be 2nd best guy at that position in Twins history. Better then Knoblauch. But long way to go.
    5.) Parmalee. Next to Sano best power. But way down the list in that regard. Sano on a whole different level.
    6.) Angel Morales. Lost in the minors now, but a real good player for the Snappers. Great tools. Lost opportunity here.
    7.) Danny Ortiz. Compact player with tight powerful swing. Gets through the zone quick. Sneaky prospect.
    8.) Hicks. Plate discipline and speed get him on this list. He could work a count better then any player I have seen here. Sometimes worked against him as he had a better eye then the umps.
    9.) Matt Koch. I like him. Has decent gap power and his bat is quicker then I would have thought. Could be me just taking someone I have seen recently, but he has some upside. A+ and AA will be interesting to watch him.
    10.) James Beresford. Probably a little emotional here. Like this kid a lot. He is all of what is mocked and ridiculed by posters online. Scrappy, tough, overachieving, underdog, high motor, gets after it. You know Punto like. But he is the one shortstop that really imppressed me with his discipline, leadership, glove, deameanor and he could put the ball in play. No power, not that fast, and needed to work on plate discipline. But the Aussie just strikes me as a baseball player first athlete second.

    Not on list-

    Benson. I only saw a few flashes of his potential here. Most of what I saw from his was his defense in center and left. That was the Wow factor. Bat had not showed power yet.
    Plouffe- Cluster at short here. Bat was a problem and the errors were a issue. Sano light without the bat. Always like him thought he came across as a real good guy and class act.
    Hermann- Never got to see him much. No opinion.
    Santana- Thought Beresford outplayed him frankly.
    Henry Sanchez- Just kidding. Saw him in uniform one time I think.
    Matt Moses- A little QC Love. Great swing. Head, well that may have been another thing. Hit the one of the hardest balls I have seen in A ball one day. Line drive to Centerfield off the batters eye in QC that must have left a mark. Only Sano, Trout and Moustatkis have hit ones harder when I have been around. Just a rocket. Then preceded to strike out the rest of the weekend.

    These are just my impressions of guys in a one or two year window. (Some like Arcia, Rosario and Sano less.) As such have no heft beyond the confines of Pohlmann Field.
    These guys do not even qualify as rookies in the MLB, so they are beyond prospects. And Parmelee is on his way...
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  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    These guys do not even qualify as rookies in the MLB, so they are beyond prospects. And Parmelee is on his way...
    He never claimed they were...he said those were the top players he had seen at the time when they went through Beloit and no where else.

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