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Thread: Dumping grounds for Valencia (and Casilla)

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Dumping grounds for Valencia (and Casilla)

    I am hoping that the Twins will at least be able to get some kind of value back for these two players, the first with almost certainly no future (aside from that platoon thing involving Mor . . . ) with the Twins, and the second with likely no future with the Twins. Only a team desperate due to lack of production at 3B or 2B is likely going to bother (aside from those teams with an extra roster spot for a pinch-hitter vs. lefties in the playoffs or a pinch-runner late in games in the playoffs).

    The Nationals have problems at 3B and 2B, with Ryan Zimmerman struggling and Danny Espinosa being terrible. Valencia or Casilla would only be motivation for these starters to get their acts together.

    The Phillies are rapidly falling, so I don't know if they would bother. Polanco looks to be about done, though.

    The two most likely target may be the Giants, primarily at 2B with the worst than lackluster performances of Ryan Theriot and Emmanuel Burriss. But those two are also 3B depth for the Giants as well, so Valencia might be in the picture there too.

    Robert Andino is not very good for the Orioles, so both Valencia and Casilla may be appealing to Baltimore if that team can keep it together in July.

    So hopefully someone will bite on Casilla and hopefully Valencia starts even hitting like he did last year for the Twins at Rochester.

  2. #2
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now. They keep trying to pencil him in and he keeps getting taken out and there doesn't seem to be any patience with him. Casilla has some value because of his speed, defense and experience and age. For those reasons... I'd love for the Twins to keep him instead of cashing in that value for a low level prospect. I'm a Carroll fan... He's a ballplayer. The thing is Carroll's age and my opinion that the Twins need to get younger. Casilla would be my choice between the two for that reason.

    Valencia on the other hand. He will end up a bench player for someone. Either the Twins or someone else but I don't see much trade value for him. He lost his job to no one. That is a pretty loud statement. We don't have a third baseman to replace you and we are going with that option. Will someone take a chance on him... I suppose but he seems like the guy who can be that player that Burroughs was supposed to be out of spring training if he has improved in Rochester... And that I don't know. I haven't been able to watch him play since the demotion. Trevor Plouffe is without question the 3b for now and Tomorrow in Minnesota.

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    Gray is looking like he could be good trade bait and I still think someone would still take Blackie.

  4. #4
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    No one will trade for Jeff Gray. Pitchers of that quality are quite easily found in AAA or on the waiver wire.

    No one will take on Blackburn's ridiculous contract, even at one remaining stupid year! He is now the worst starter in baseball!

    As far as Casilla goes . . . . PATIENCE! How many years does he need? This is his 6th year. He is soon turning 28. In limited time in 2010, he was good. In 2008 he was pretty good. The second half of last season he was pretty good. Other than these spots, he has been Luis Rivasesque. And he will be set to make about $2 million next year. He is the definition of a replaceable player . . . replaced with a $480k guy like Florimon.

    Valencia's 2010 numbers and his 2011 bit of power (and his pre 2012 excellence against lefties) still makes him mildly valuable for a team looking for an MLB player to fill a particular role (you know, teams with very good rosters and one little situational hole).

    I am not sure what the Twins would get back, but there is no point keeping either one of them. A hard thrower with moderate control at any level of baseball would be worth each of them.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now. They keep trying to pencil him in and he keeps getting taken out and there doesn't seem to be any patience with him. Casilla has some value because of his speed, defense and experience and age. For those reasons... I'd love for the Twins to keep him instead of cashing in that value for a low level prospect. I'm a Carroll fan... He's a ballplayer. The thing is Carroll's age and my opinion that the Twins need to get younger. Casilla would be my choice between the two for that reason. .
    Totally agree. He just turned 27 and he is entering his prime. And this season has turned the corner with the glove. And he has been hitting but needs more consistent time to him with more consistency. If there is one who should not be in the Twins' future is Carroll. He is old. Casilla is not and the Twins do not have a pipeline of middle infielders in the minors. For some reason Casilla has been in the doghouse. Might be that he is Latin and there is not good communication with him and the manager and the coaches (and he would not be the first Latin player who has communication isssues in minny.) Who knows, but he deserves more playing time.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Casilla turns 28 in a few weeks and has been in the majors for 6 seasons. His offensive numbers are almost as bad as they have ever been.

  7. #7
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now.
    Perhaps that he's the 4th best middle infilder on the team?

    I think the ship has pretty much sailed with Alexi. He is what he is, a decent utility guy who is about to get expensive. I'm guessing he's done in MN after this season and will end up signing a lot of 1 or 2 year prove it contracts. I doubt we will get much of all of value for him, if we do, we should be building a shrine to Terry Ryan at TF somewhere.

    As for Valencia, there's hope for getting something of value for him, though not this year. He had a good rookie campaign and has always hit in the minors. Should he figure things out in AAA, I could see him pushing Plouffe into a middle infielder role (which I'd personally welcome) and retaking 3B. Otherwise, he might be a decent trade chip for someone somewhere if Plouffe cannot move, but that is solely dependent on him figuring things out, which to this point, he has not.

    And blackburn... OK, seriously, we couldn't give him away right now.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Totally agree. He just turned 27 and he is entering his prime. And this season has turned the corner with the glove. And he has been hitting but needs more consistent time to him with more consistency. If there is one who should not be in the Twins' future is Carroll. He is old. Casilla is not and the Twins do not have a pipeline of middle infielders in the minors. For some reason Casilla has been in the doghouse. Might be that he is Latin and there is not good communication with him and the manager and the coaches (and he would not be the first Latin player who has communication isssues in minny.) Who knows, but he deserves more playing time.
    1) He didn't "just turn 27". He'll be 28 in a couple of weeks.

    2) He's had over 1,600 plate appearances and 5 seasons to establish himself as the regular 2B or SS, and he hasn't been able to do it.

    3) I'm not sure what he's done to deserve more playing time. You can't keep giving him playing time based on what he did for parts of 2008 and 2010. Outside of those stretches, he just hasn't been a very good player.

  9. #9
    No. No teams want these players.

    And things can change so quickly, in a heartbeat. If Dozier, Casilla, Carroll or Plouffe gets injured, Valencia could get called up. If Dozier slumps and Valencia keeps hitting well in AAA he could still be on his way up. Things have a tendency to change quickly in the Majors.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    I agree that Casilla should get more playing time. You don't choose middle infielders for their hitting ability but for their field work. In that he is greatly improved this year, and a .244 average is not that bad at all. Florimon is only hitting .248 at AAA. Is Casilla the long-term future? No. But he's a good stop-gap until someone like Michael or Rosario in class-A can make the team in a few years.

  11. #11
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Casilla is no longer a stop gap... He's in his arb years now and gets very expensive.

  12. #12
    Casilla has actually been healthy for the first time as a fulltime Twin.
    Valencia could have value right now as a RH DH/1B, backup 3B/PH vs lefties. His splits have been pretty wild. Cant hit righties/kills lefties.
    Gray has no use & I would dump him 2 months ago if our AAA relievers coulda stayed healthy.
    DFA Blackburn & Nishi & pay their 10m total for next yr but keep em off the 40 man.

  13. #13
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestral View Post
    If Dozier slumps and Valencia keeps hitting well in AAA he could still be on his way up.
    I'm trying to figure out how Valencia would help the middle infield situation; he has essentially no professional experience at 2B/SS. Gardy is unlikely to move Plouffe to SS for two reasons: 1) he hated Plouffe's SS play when he was tried there; 2) he likes to give players clear roles and now that Plouffe is hitting a ton he really won't want to upset that bit of status quo.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Gardy is unlikely to move Plouffe to SS for two reasons: 1) he hated Plouffe's SS play when he was tried there;
    Who didn't?

    Plouffe appears to have found a home. Did you see his DP play on Cabrera last night? No more "happy feet" or throws from shortstop 10 feet over the first baseman's head. You're right about Valencia, a corner IF guy or platoon RFer are his only options. Given who has established themselves for the near term in LF and 3B, unless something opens up in right or at first, his window is closing rapidly.

  15. #15
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Good lord, people. Still clamoring for Alexi Casilla?

    1600+ MLB PAs. .251/.307/.335. Worse slash numbers across the board in 2012. Nothing special defensively at second, a proven failure at SS. 28 Yrs old in a couple weeks. Prone to mindbogglingly stupid mental lapses. Prone to injury. About to get more and more expensive.

    While I agree Carroll is a nice player but not a part of the Twins future, it's time to move on from Alexi Casilla.

  16. #16
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Who didn't?
    Not really my intention to open a Plouffe=SS discussion. Gardy's the only one with a vote, in that regard, and that was my point regarding Valencia coming back up.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    No one will trade for Jeff Gray.
    But he's 5-0!


    Casilla has been somewhat productive the past two seasons. I dislike him, but he should get played a little more often to keep Dozier out of the lineup (He gets played too often).

  18. #18
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    Nobody is giving you anything for Casilla and Valencia. They have value as better than replacement players.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Valencia has value and would probably be better served going to a different organization. If he figures it out, I could see him as a league average 3B

    Casilla is the texbook definition of a utility infielder, but can't seem to figure that out. He rminds me a lot of Louis Rivas. It's a shame because he has some of the biogger atbats in recent Twins history.

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden View Post
    Valencia has value and would probably be better served going to a different organization. If he figures it out, I could see him as a league average 3B

    Casilla is the texbook definition of a utility infielder, but can't seem to figure that out. He rminds me a lot of Louis Rivas. It's a shame because he has some of the biogger atbats in recent Twins history.
    Yeah, I think Valencia would be better getting away from Gardenhire, absolutely. I think that is the main selling point for him, actually.

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