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Thread: Waldrop recalled; Manship optioned

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    What's your beef with Swarzak? He's perfectly suitable in his current role.
    Yes, he does appear to have a lot of upcoming opportunites to break out the 4th inning-or-so-mop-up duties during the frequent 10-2 thrashings.

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    He's perfectly suitable in his current role.
    Cromulent, even.

  3. #23
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Yes, he does appear to have a lot of upcoming opportunites to break out the 4th inning-or-so-mop-up duties during the frequent 10-2 thrashings.
    All I'm saying is, the Twins need a guy who can come in and pitch a few innings out of the bullpen, especially considering the current state of their rotation. Swarzak can usually do that without giving up a bunch of runs and letting things spin out of control. I can understand the desire to be rid of Manship – who hasn't been able to do that – or Gray – who, in addition to not being very good, isn't really a long reliever – but I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be fed up with Anthony Swarzak, of all people on this roster.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    What's your beef with Swarzak? He's perfectly suitable in his current role.
    What's the beef? Besides the fact that he isn't good? What else are you looking for here? That 33/12 K/BB ratio in 55 innings isn't an abomination. Except that it is. He wasn't good since 2007 in the minors.

    Again, another person poo-pooing a minor adjustment of some x number of wins (even .x . . . ) in order to defend the status quo. Swarzak is NOT a major league pitcher and it is rather alarming that people think he is.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Let's add 'em up here (and it is clear that this doesn't belong in this thread):

    1. Swarzak, Gray, and now Manship kept beyond serviceability.
    2. Chris Parmelee wasted on the MLB bench for some completely absurd reason.
    3. Ben Revere not on the 25 man roster from the beginning (perhaps his AAA time helped him?).
    4. Drew Butera vs. any other AAAA catchers.
    5. Matt Carson instead of Mastro.
    6. Slama--not injured if called up
    7. Morneau not facing lefties.

    ETC.

    These things add up. This isn't addressing the SP issue, which everyone focuses on. Ignoring other wins available is not a good idea though. But maybe I am just crazy.

  6. #26
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    What's the beef? Besides the fact that he isn't good? What else are you looking for here? That 33/12 K/BB ratio in 55 innings isn't an abomination. Except that it is. He wasn't good since 2007 in the minors.
    I disagree. Swarzak had a 3.99 ERA as a reliever last year; this year it is 2.95. K/BB ratio doesn't measure results. Results measure results, and up to this point your condemnation simply isn't supported by reality. He shouldn't ever be starting a ballgame, but he's been solid when used properly.

    He's a second-round pick with reasonable success in the minors, he's only 26, and he's making the league minimum. Wasting energy on the argument that he should be released seems misguided considering how many players on this team have actually been terrible in their roles. Not all 12 pitchers on the staff have to be great.

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Ok, so continue to trot him out there in situations where not being terrible would be helpful. It is HILARIOUS that a Twins fan claims that "not all 12 pitchers on the staff have to be great." Does one prefer good or average over great? How about below average over great? Again, another claim that it is "all OK" in the bullpen so that 0.5 win isn't relevant.

  8. #28
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Ok, so continue to trot him out there in situations where not being terrible would be helpful. It is HILARIOUS that a Twins fan claims that "not all 12 pitchers on the staff have to be great." Does one prefer good or average over great? How about below average over great? Again, another claim that it is "all OK" in the bullpen so that 0.5 win isn't relevant.
    I never said it is "all OK" in the bullpen. I said Swarzak has not been part of the problem, and that's demonstrably true. You're basically complaining for no reason.

  9. #29
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    If I were to make a list of the Twins Top 25 roster issues, Anthony Swarzak would be wayyyy down the list. He's been solid in his multiple roles the last couple of years.

  10. #30
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    If I were to make a list of the Twins Top 25 roster issues, Anthony Swarzak would be wayyyy down the list. He's been solid in his multiple roles the last couple of years.
    *in best Captain Edward Smith voice*

    Screw that iceberg! Get those deck chairs in order, seaman!

  11. #31
    Swarzak isn't the point of this thread, but I have no problem with his performance this year (or last year). He's valuable as a mop-up guy and occasional spot starter. He doesn't strike out many, and he can get hit hard, but he throws strikes. He may not have a future in the rotation, but that doesn't mean I want him off the team, either.

    Manship just hasn't shown anything to warrant an opportunity to stay in the bigs. Despite having an awesome last name (and only 6 starts in the majors), he's been nothing short of awful. I can't even point to a good Jeff Manship "moment" in any of the four seasons he's pitched, and he's 27 now. 4 home runs in 10 innings pitched is worse than some Home Run Derby pitchers...

  12. #32
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Let's see if I can summarize this. Most bullpens, but particularly the Twins' bullpen need a long man that can pitch multiple innings, might be called on to pitch a lot in a short time and then not pitch for a week. The Twins have Swarzak for that role and he has been pretty good for that. Manship profiles as another long man and he has not shown that he has the ability to pitch a lot in a short period of time, nor has he shown the ability to get big league hitters out in any role. Waldrop will not be a long man, but will join Burnett as a righthanded middle reliever/setup guy who mostly will pitch one inning three or four times a week with varying amounts of leverage.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    The only reason Swarzak provides value to the team is because it seems absolutely no one else is capable of doing long relief on this roster. It's pretty frustrating to watch pitchers like Manship and Gray struggle because from a fan's perspective it shouldn't be difficult. It's not because he's a good pitcher and shanewahl has given plenty of explanations above. I really only scratch the surface analytically with Swarzak because his ERA has been consistently in the high fours for a few years and that is below average.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    The only reason Swarzak provides value to the team is because it seems absolutely no one else is capable of doing long relief on this roster. It's pretty frustrating to watch pitchers like Manship and Gray struggle because from a fan's perspective it shouldn't be difficult. It's not because he's a good pitcher and shanewahl has given plenty of explanations above. I really only scratch the surface analytically with Swarzak because his ERA has been consistently in the high fours for a few years and that is below average.
    While Swarzak's overall ERA has been in the high fours, his career ERA as a Reliever is 3.48 in 34 games (WHIP of 1.25). As a starter his ERA is 5.74 (27 games) with a WHIP if 1.50.

    This year he has a 8.35 ERA as a starter (4 games/18IP, WHIP=1.855) and a 2.95 ERA as a reliever (18 games/36IP, WHIP+1.064).

    He has very good value as a guy who can throw 2-3 innings at a shot.
    Last edited by SweetOne69; 06-28-2012 at 03:36 PM.

  15. #35
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    14 IP in AAA, 5K, 5BB. There have GOT to be better options. Space on this 40 man is not that valuable.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    14 IP in AAA, 5K, 5BB. There have GOT to be better options. Space on this 40 man is not that valuable.
    Waldrop?

    Consider it an audition for next season... Space on the 25 man roster is not that valuable either. They got to see some time what these guys can do before they have to make the hard decisions
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