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Thread: Article: Trade Target Team Profile: Toronto Blue Jays

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    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: Trade Target Team Profile: Toronto Blue Jays


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    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Great article.

    Syndergaard and Nicolino both seem very tempting. I continue to wonder why the Twins seem unable to identify and draft quality pitchers of the caliber. The Twins could have picked these guys, but did not. Maybe the Twins are just not good at scouting young starters?

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Great article.

    Syndergaard and Nicolino both seem very tempting. I continue to wonder why the Twins seem unable to identify and draft quality pitchers of the caliber. The Twins could have picked these guys, but did not. Maybe the Twins are just not good at scouting young starters?
    Its an organizational flaw. For awhile now the Twins haven't drafted high end guys, and the ones they do end up needing surgery. Bad luck or bad scouting? I want fresh blood in the Twins brass and a new direction. I don't think JR can draft and build a winning team, the current scouts are looking for the right things in players, and the medical staff is incompetent.

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    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Hutchinson and Drabek are a little more than "on the shelf." Drabek is undergoing Tommy John surgery and Hutchinson is in wait and see mode like Wimmers. No wonder they're looking for pitching. (Similar to the Twins.)

    I know this is NEVER done, but I wonder if the Twins would consider going after Drabek even though he's undergoing TJ. It's not against the rules. Give that they've got a doctor poking around in his arm, they'll know as much about that condition as they ever will. I have to imagine he's available at a discount, especially for a need.

    It seems like a market inefficiency that one could leverage.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    If you're the Twins, do you take a guy in the higher minors with lower upside or do you take a raw guy with big upside in the low minors for some of your trade pieces?

    I think everything depends on when JR thinks the team can compete again.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I know this is NEVER done, but I wonder if the Twins would consider going after Drabek even though he's undergoing TJ. It's not against the rules. Give that they've got a doctor poking around in his arm, they'll know as much about that condition as they ever will. I have to imagine he's available at a discount, especially for a need.

    It seems like a market inefficiency that one could leverage.
    I've always thought this was a prime area to "Moneyball". I've never understood why no one has made the jump to acquiring injured guys at discount prices. It's a win for both teams. The rebuilding team gets a piece that has the potential to help a bunch down the road, the contending team has a chance to win more by dealing a guy who won't be of help for considerable time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Great article.

    Syndergaard and Nicolino both seem very tempting. I continue to wonder why the Twins seem unable to identify and draft quality pitchers of the caliber. The Twins could have picked these guys, but did not. Maybe the Twins are just not good at scouting young starters?
    Especially Nicolino, since he's more of a stereotypical Twins type of pitcher.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    I've always thought this was a prime area to "Moneyball". I've never understood why no one has made the jump to acquiring injured guys at discount prices. It's a win for both teams. The rebuilding team gets a piece that has the potential to help a bunch down the road, the contending team has a chance to win more by dealing a guy who won't be of help for considerable time.
    I don't think it happens because teams (other then Bill Smith Run teams) typically don't like trading a player when his value is at an all time low. I'd imagine the Blue Jays have some faith that Drabek will rebound and be a nice young starting pitcher for them for years to come, they won't simply give that up for a rental like Carl Pavano or something. (Unless of course Bill Smith was the GM)

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I don't think it happens because teams (other then Bill Smith Run teams) typically don't like trading a player when his value is at an all time low. I'd imagine the Blue Jays have some faith that Drabek will rebound and be a nice young starting pitcher for them for years to come, they won't simply give that up for a rental like Carl Pavano or something. (Unless of course Bill Smith was the GM)
    My point is that a middle ground can be reached, not that the Jays should hand Drabek to the first team that offers them someone with a pulse. I don't think Drabek should be traded for Pavano, I'm simply saying that by each side taking on a little risk, the deal could be advantageous for both teams.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    My point is that a middle ground can be reached, not that the Jays should hand Drabek to the first team that offers them someone with a pulse. I don't think Drabek should be traded for Pavano, I'm simply saying that by each side taking on a little risk, the deal could be advantageous for both teams.
    The other problem that exists with a guy like Drabek is that he has been complete garbage his entire time in the majors, 5.34 ERA, and a god awful 5.9/5.8 k/bb ratio, now through the TJ surgery in and he is at an all time low in value, the Jays have no reason to trade him (unless some dumb team offers you great value).

  11. #11
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Great article.

    Syndergaard and Nicolino both seem very tempting. I continue to wonder why the Twins seem unable to identify and draft quality pitchers of the caliber. The Twins could have picked these guys, but did not. Maybe the Twins are just not good at scouting young starters?
    I wasn't a huge fan of the Wimmers pick but he was supposed to be one of the safer picks in the 2010 draft and should've been quick to the majors. Hard to fault them on that. In the second round they took toolsy Nico Goodrum from Georgia. The Twins had wanted to improve their scouting in the southeast and had put Terry Ryan in charge of that area. He loved Goodrum. Obviously, I'd trade our two picks for theirs in a minute but their picks were certainly defensible.

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    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    It seems to me that Alex Anthopoulos would be a lot more interested in a guy like Burton than Capps. We haven't talked much about trading him, but he's a free agent after 2013. If the Twins were offered, say, Carreno (SP above) for Burton and another lower level prospect (Angel Morales?) would you make that trade? I think I would.

  13. #13
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Re: Drabek... I don't think you can trade a player on the DL, can you?

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Re: Drabek... I don't think you can trade a player on the DL, can you?
    I thought you could if he was the minors... Gonna look into it now.

  15. #15
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Hmm. This guy says it can be done. Hardly concrete evidence but it's something.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ers_yes_y.html

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Its an organizational flaw. For awhile now the Twins haven't drafted high end guys, and the ones they do end up needing surgery. Bad luck or bad scouting? I want fresh blood in the Twins brass and a new direction. I don't think JR can draft and build a winning team, the current scouts are looking for the right things in players, and the medical staff is incompetent.

    Both Wimmers and Gibson have excelled in the minors. No one can scout injuries. They both had no history of major injuries. But yes great Article. I would like to see that outfielder in A twins Uniform!

  17. #17
    The Jays haven't really been in win-now mode over the last few years. Instead, they've subtly improved their ML club and built one of the two or three best farms systems in baseball. I find it hard to believe that they're going to jump into the mix in a big way when they're still a fairly flawed team stuck in the hell that is the NL East.

    If they were in buy-mode, Sanchez, Comer, Cardona, Norris, Musgrove and Wojiechowski and the two pitchers would all make nice targets. Just about every one of those guys has a ceiling that would rank at or near the top of the Twins' system. In the case of Sanchez, Norris, Nicolino, Syndergaard, Comer and Cardona I don't really think it's close.

  18. #18
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureGM92 View Post
    Wimmers.....excelled in the minors.
    huh? Are we talking about the same guy?

  19. #19
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    huh? Are we talking about the same guy?
    I was expecting to see a link for discount MLB jerseys after his post.
    Chris Hermann solves everything. hat tip to jokin

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