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Thread: Valencia, Morneau LH/RH splits and 1st base

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Agreed snepp. Even if it's not Valencia than call-up Matt Carson or some other scrub. Parmalee needs to be getting ABs.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Weird . . . one would have thought that moving Valencia to this role would also be much more about the future than simply about 2012! I guess that isn't the impression I gave most people. Anyway, at 6.5 games out, I don't really like seeing Morneau up there against lefties. I mean . . . my god look at the stats one more time. That's not even Butera-esque.

    And of course it is true that Valencia's numbers against lefties for his career are better than Morneau's for his career.

    "The guy is still in his prime, it isn't time yet to designate him to be a platoon player." -- how on earth is he in his prime!? It has shocked most people that he has performed even close to this well this season.

  3. #23
    It will be a cold day in hell before Gardy platoons or pitch hits for Morneau (even though it's the absolutly right call) against LHP.
    This is just frustratingly short-sighted. Morneau isn't some marginal minor-league call-up. He's a former MVP who got creamed in the head and is fighting a long road back. He's made progress, against some tall odds. The Twins aren't in it anyways. This is his is best shot to get back to his former self, and a 10% chance of that is better than a short-term fix to try to snag another run or two over the course of the rest of the season.

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    "The guy is still in his prime, it isn't time yet to designate him to be a platoon player." -- how on earth is he in his prime!? It has shocked most people that he has performed even close to this well this season.
    How is he not in his prime? He's only 31 years old and is returning from a career-threatening concussion. It's not as if he had his knee repaired and it will never be right again. If he can put the concussion symptoms behind him for good and gets back into a rhythm, he has plenty of good years ahead of him. He was neck-and-neck with Cabrera for the 2010 MVP when he thumped his noggin. That was less than two years ago.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kirbyelway View Post
    I'd rather have a bad Morneau than a good Valencia.
    Huh? Why, because you like Morneau better?

    I think the Twins' have spent too MUCH time worrying about "rewarding the nice guys" in their clubhouse. That being said, it's not like Valencia has any kind of track record to declare that he "deserves" a platoon shot. Now, if Parmelee were right-handed, or if we had another "4-A" minor leaguer that could mash lefties and actually plays 1B...

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    He's "only" 31 and returning from a career-threatening concussion (and a whole host of other injuries). That is what you should have stated. Now read that out loud and ask yourself if that is a player in his "prime."

    He also didn't "thump his noggin." He had his who the hell knows Nth concussion . . . then he re-aggravated that diving for a ball last year. One more concussion and it is over.

  7. #27
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daan4786 View Post
    Its not about valencia for me, its that your saying that morneau is incapable of improving against lefties. The guy took most of two years off because his head was messed up. Now he's back and hitting the ball hard- plenty of homers and rbis, although his batting average is low because he's struggling against lefties. Hitting left-handed pitching is difficult for left handed hitters, so isn't it possible that taking all that time off left him with less confidence and changed his approach? He's the same person, the same excellent hitter, but he might need to see more lefties and change his approach (maybe swing a little less) to get back to maybe 80% of where he was in his prime.
    What he said, plus why waste Valencia now hitting against lefties when there still might be hope he becomes a more complete player down in Rochester. I agree with the Parmelee sentiment though.

  8. #28
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Given how Parmelee has started to look like he could someday be Morneau's replacement (it's still a bit of a longshot but not impossible), it doubly makes no sense for him to rot on the bench when he could be getting valuable ABs in Rochester.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Agreed snepp. Even if it's not Valencia than call-up Matt Carson or some other scrub. Parmalee needs to be getting ABs.
    That about sums it up. Parmelee's roster spot is basically unused at this point and he would be better served playing every day. They don't need to go full platoon with Morneau, but it wouldn't hurt to give him a few breaks against them either.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Also, players in their "prime" do not post .375ish OPS against any-handed pitchers in the past 165+ plate appearances against them.

  10. #30
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    He's "only" 31 and returning from a career-threatening concussion (and a whole host of other injuries). That is what you should have stated. Now read that out loud and ask yourself if that is a player in his "prime."

    He also didn't "thump his noggin." He had his who the hell knows Nth concussion . . . then he re-aggravated that diving for a ball last year. One more concussion and it is over.
    Overstated, lots of top athletes have come back just fine from concussions and played well. I didn't say he was in his prime but right now he is taking the field almost everyday, playing it just fine, hitting and slugging very well against righties and waiting to get his s**t together against lefties. My money is on him doing it based on his track record, which is one hell of a lot better track record than Danny Valencia.

  11. #31
    Banned Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    What he said, plus why waste Valencia now hitting against lefties when there still might be hope he becomes a more complete player down in Rochester. I agree with the Parmelee sentiment though.
    Valencia is what 27-28 years old, he's not some kid who's still got some upside. He's not a everyday MLB player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't havea nice platoon role at 3B, 1B and maybe even fake his way on the corner outfields spot.

  12. #32
    Quote: kirbyelway 27757:I'd rather have a bad Morneau than a good Valencia.

    +1

  13. #33
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    He's "only" 31 and returning from a career-threatening concussion (and a whole host of other injuries). That is what you should have stated. Now read that out loud and ask yourself if that is a player in his "prime."

    He also didn't "thump his noggin." He had his who the hell knows Nth concussion . . . then he re-aggravated that diving for a ball last year. One more concussion and it is over.
    I didn't guarantee health for the rest of his career, I merely said that if he's healthy, he's still in his prime years. Can he stay healthy? I have no idea but if his concussion symptoms are truly behind him, that's a huge step in the right direction. Before the concussion, he had one back injury that knocked him out of the final 25 games of 2009. Before that point, he was a rock at first. As for post-concussion injuries, it's hard to say... Frustration and bad play could have been just as responsible for those "injuries" as actual physical ailments.

  14. #34
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Valencia is what 27-28 years old, he's not some kid who's still got some upside. He's not a everyday MLB player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't havea nice platoon role at 3B, 1B and maybe even fake his way on the corner outfields spot.
    Pretty much, get what value out of him while you can, the chances are pretty good there isn't a huge future ahead of him.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  15. #35
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Pretty much, get what value out of him while you can, the chances are pretty good there isn't a huge future ahead of him.
    Yeah, if you want to bet on the future of Valencia or Parmelee, you take Parmelee every time. That's why he should be in Rochester. Nobody should care if Valencia is wasting service time on the bench.

  16. #36
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Yeah, if you want to bet on the future of Valencia or Parmelee, you take Parmelee every time. That's why he should be in Rochester. Nobody should care if Valencia is wasting service time on the bench.
    Well, you're right about that and I don't care, would definitely take Parm every time.

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Overstated, lots of top athletes have come back just fine from concussions and played well. I didn't say he was in his prime but right now he is taking the field almost everyday, playing it just fine, hitting and slugging very well against righties and waiting to get his s**t together against lefties. My money is on him doing it based on his track record, which is one hell of a lot better track record than Danny Valencia.
    What part is overstated? Are people forgetting that prior to the beginning of this season, there were many of us who thought he might never really play again, or else something horrible will happen again soon. People also seem to forget the other injuries besides the concussions. And I suspect something else is bothering him right now.
    Last edited by Shane Wahl; 06-26-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: accidentally posted too soon.

  18. #38
    Like the idea. If you can't get rid of Morneau ( I do not believe M is capable of retruning to form. the old Justin is gone and not likely to return) and his huge salary at least we could get better production against lefties into the line up. Let's Parmelee go back where he belongs.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    OK parmelee is doing nothing on the roster. Sitting on the bench does him no good or the team any good. Bringing up Valencia does make sense becasue he fits what they need better. I would think that he should play 3rd on the days a lefty is pitching and Plouffe can play first, however. Giving Morneau a day off now and then against a lefty is logical and having his bat on the bench for later in the game is a big plus. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to have Valencia on the bench agaist a lefty reliever late in a game. It would appear that Valencia isn't going to fit in the Twins future so getting him some at bats where he could succeed might raise his trade value from the now broken bat level.

  20. #40
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Also, players in their "prime" do not post .375ish OPS against any-handed pitchers in the past 165+ plate appearances against them.
    Are you truly this dense? Do you understand why exactly Morneau struggled mightily last year and has been less than perfect this year?

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