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Thread: Colorado's Four-Man Rotation

  1. #21
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Can you explain how limiting the pitcher to 75 pitches improves his first 3 innings? Just glancing through box scores it looks to me like Twins pitchers are often getting in trouble early in the game. How does this change that?
    It's the reliever principle. If your third or fourth pitch is kinda crappy, you drop it. If you don't have to go through the lineup three times, you won't need to rely on secondary pitches as often.

    Throwing fewer pitches also allows the pitcher to throw harder. It's the reason why you see guys go from the rotation to the bullpen and gain 2-3 MPH on their fastballs (Glen Perkins). They don't care about winding back and throwing at maximum effort because they're throwing far fewer pitches than if they were a starter.

  2. #22
    Has anyone brought up the fact that our bullpen has already been taxed for quite a few innings this year, and we want to give them more??

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Can you explain how limiting the pitcher to 75 pitches improves his first 3 innings? Just glancing through box scores it looks to me like Twins pitchers are often getting in trouble early in the game. How does this change that?

    We already have Capps who seems to come in and give up a run or 2 before he "settles down" for the save. Are the starting pitchers going to be that much different knowing that they only have 75 pitches instead of 100 or so?

    I'm all for trying something different and I suppose in a lost season, experimenting makes sense but I'm not really sure what this accomplishes unless you really think it is an alternative for long-term success not just a filler for the season. Unless you think it may work long-term, I think SpiritOVD has a good point above - the Twins are going to need starters next year --might as well see what they have. (Unfortunately I think the answer to that question is "not much".)
    It doesn't improve his first 3 innings IF the pitcher doesn't change the way he does things.

    Who knows why Tracy came to this conclusion and is attempting this. He could be saying... My relievers are better so let's use them more or...

    What I believe... Tracy is getting tired of talking to his pitchers over and over again about throwing strikes and moving the game along so he's taking an extreme measure to make them change.

    With a 75 Pitch limit. You got to throw strikes... If you are constantly getting into full counts your pitch count rises. This causes multiple problems.

    1. Your Pitcher tires as long innings progress. This increases the chance of cookies being thrown.
    2. The More pitches a batter sees. The better the odds that one of those pitches becomes that cookie. This is why batters are taught to be selective.
    3. The more pitches a pitcher throws in an inning. The less sharp your defense is behind you.
    4. If you are nibbling and end up walking a batter. The bigger the price(runners on base) when that cookie is thrown.

    This is Pitch to contact and what it's all about. It's about playing crisp clean baseball. Get in and get out. I'm not so much a pitch to contact guy... at least not across the board... But I am a no free passes, play defense guy. So if that makes me a pitch to contact guy... Give me a badge and I'll put it on my sleeve proudly.

    In the case of the Rockies... The pitchers are getting hit... If they are going to get hit... Might as well get it over with. Throw the ball and hope your defense catches it. Don't compound the problem by walking guys and getting into long counts.

    Perhaps the truest thing ever said about baseball is this: Walks and errors will kill you... That's a simplification... Walks and balls that should have been caught are what kill you... not just errors. We are not talking about the ball that the SS boots alone. It's the ball that the SS should have got to but didn't cuz he's not on his toes after the 22nd pitch of an inning.

    The Texas Rangers lead the league in hits with 691... The Pirates are last with 512. That's a difference of 179 hits over the course of 70 games. A difference of a little more than 2 hits a game between the top and the bottom.

    Yes it's an over simplification but take a look at that and think about it... 2 hits more on average is not the difference between wins and losses. The Pirates are last and doing alright this year.

    It's all about avoiding the big inning. Not helping the other team string stuff together. If they are going to get hit after hit in an inning... So be it... The odds are against them but it happens... But, if you start blowing plays in the field and walking batters. You are helping them string stuff together and pretty soon you are down 3 runs.

    Pounding the strike zone eliminates the walk and helps eliminate the lazy play on defense. If you take away the walks and errors or curtail them a bit... Then that BABIP comes into play... and batters get out more often than they don't on balls put in play.

    Teams average one home run a game. That's it... One Per game. Limit the damage of that one per game on average.

    That pitcher who nibbles because he's afraid of getting tagged is also dealing with a batter who is pretty good at fouling off pitches he doesn't like which compounds the problem. Pounding the strike zone and using less pitches... Saves arm stress, eliminates the need for the secondary pitch so you can throw your best stuff and challenge hitters. But... all in all... It leads to a good crisp game of baseball and gives you a leg up in those 1 or 2 run games that happen all the time.

    I see this as a manager making a bold out of the box move in order to send a message to his starting staff. Pound the strike zone or you won't see the 5th inning. I like it and we will see if it works. I don't know if you do this with a Kershaw but if you don't have a Kershaw... Why not... Let's see what happens. Every once in awhile... Someone comes up with something new and if it works it gets copied... This could be one of those things or it could end up being something that doesn't work and baseball leaves it behind.

    Should the Twins do this? I'd rather let the Rockies be the test project and watch the results. But... We don't have Kershaw either... So put me in the Big MAYBE camp.

  4. #24
    Gardy mismanages his bullpen with a five man rotation, I cannot image the carnage he would cause with a 4-man rotation with 75 pitch limit.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RIP BYTO View Post
    Gardy mismanages his bullpen with a five man rotation, I cannot image the carnage he would cause with a 4-man rotation with 75 pitch limit.
    +1, unless we get like some fresh relievers too. These starters can barely go 6 innings.

  6. #26
    Twins Contributor Big-Leaguer Cody Christie's Avatar
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    When I saw this idea, I wasn't sure what to think of it.

    The thought that keeps crossing my mind is the how the starters feel about this. With a 75 pitch limit, there is less of a chance for them to reach the amount of innings needed to qualify for a victory. Then when it comes to arbitration at the end of the year, their numbers look like they decreased and they might not get as much money. But I guess if you pitch in Coors Field, your numbers are already be lower.

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