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Thread: Article: Liriano Rediscovers the Slider

  1. #21
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    More like $12.5 million.


    Consider your nits picked.

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper0080 View Post
    Seriously? You guys are now advocating Liriano after a few good starts? This is who he is, a totally inconsistent pitcher with talent. Hoping he stays hot and trading him for a middle grade prospect is our best case scenario. Liriano is never going to be a pitcher a club can rely on and we will be lucky to get something for him.
    FWIW, I disagree with everything in this post. Strongly.

    "Inconsistent...with talent" beats the crap out of consistent but with no talent. Isn't that exactly what everyone complains about, endlessly? The Twins have no talented starting pitchers?

    Perhaps Liriano never does figure it out. But on a team desparate for above average starting pitching I'd take Liriano over any combination of Blackburn/Marquis/Pavano/Walters/whatever scrap heap reclamation project next season brings us, any day, and it wouldn't cost much more. In some cases, less.

    IMO some team is going to get a gem in Liriano some day. I hope it's the Twins.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    More like $12.5 million.


    Consider your nits picked.
    I'd offer 3/$21 right now. I bet he'd take it. That's one more year and only $2.5M more than Pavano got to lead the league in hits allowed and implode in year two.

  4. #24
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I'd offer 3/$21 right now. I bet he'd take it. That's one more year and only $2.5M more than Pavano got to lead the league in hits allowed and implode in year two.
    That would be a whole lot better risk than the guaranteed mediocrity they would likely sign otherwise.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    I don't see any harm in offering 6 million to Liriano through arbitration.
    I have a question on the new rules and that reminded me. There's that ~$12M number that is out there...is that the amount they have to offer him IN ORDER TO GET a compensation pick? Or is that the minimum arbitration number, period? I guess I'm wondering if they could offer him arbitration for a more reasonable number.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Parker, you do a great job trying to unravel this mystery.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by chopper0080 View Post
    Seriously? You guys are now advocating Liriano after a few good starts? This is who he is, a totally inconsistent pitcher with talent. Hoping he stays hot and trading him for a middle grade prospect is our best case scenario. Liriano is never going to be a pitcher a club can rely on and we will be lucky to get something for him.
    I've gotta say that I agree to an extent. If the Twins can't get a good return on him though a trade then they may as well see how little they can pay for him. It's all but decided that the Twins are not going to compete next year and while Liriano can be awful, he can also be spectacular. If the previously mentioned scenario plays out then there's no reason they shouldn't take a chance on giving fans potential greatness when his inconsistency surely won't cost the team their season.

  8. #28
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    i agree with those who prefer the hope for having an ace over the guaranteed mediocrity that will result from letting Liriano go. Maybe if they could get a prospect who has ace potential, this might make sense. Otherwise, if Liriano does well during the rest of this season, I would offer the minimum amount necessary to qualify for a compensation pick.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    cannot offer $6m to him in arbitration......has to be $12m under new rules.
    Does this change your attitude on this bum?

    You're telling me the 80% rule was changed in the new CBA? What Cdog said makes a lot more sense.
    Last edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse; 06-21-2012 at 01:52 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    I have a question on the new rules and that reminded me. There's that ~$12M number that is out there...is that the amount they have to offer him IN ORDER TO GET a compensation pick? Or is that the minimum arbitration number, period? I guess I'm wondering if they could offer him arbitration for a more reasonable number.
    I believe you are correct. The 12.5 million number I assume is the average salary of the 125 highest paid players that posters keep bringing up. This only pertains to Draft Pick Compensation under the new CBA and the 80% rule still stands. Therefore, my stance in my previous post doesn't change and I would be shocked if Liriano didn't accept 6 million after pitching like crap.
    Source: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/2011_CBA.pdf
    Last edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse; 06-21-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Bryz-Gornia View Post
    A 5.63 ERA in only 5 starts at Target Field is a terrible reason to not sign him. No, the Twins won't sign him because he'll be too expensive.
    And giving a contract to someone with those numbers in your home park is irresponsible.

  12. #32
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    And giving a contract to someone with those numbers in your home park is irresponsible.
    No, drawing any conclusions whatsoever from a sample size that incredibly small and completely meaningless would be irresponsible.

  13. #33
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Other than Liriano, is there even a remote hope for an ace next year?

  14. #34
    Ship him - but get SOMETHING

  15. #35
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I'd offer 3/$21 right now. I bet he'd take it.
    He quite possibly would, assuming he's not fed up with the organization and wants to start fresh somewhere.

    This is why Terry Ryan sits in the big chair - a very difficult decision. Shades of signing Nick Blackburn - there's a very big risk that a year from now Liriano is back to scuffling and the contract makes him totally untradeable, instead of just not tradeable for as much as we'd want. A similar size contract to what was given to Willingham, but with much greater risk/reward either side.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Other than Liriano, is there even a remote hope for an ace next year?
    Not in the organization. Twins need to throw a pile of cash at Grienke's feet.

  17. #37
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest Poster Alive View Post
    Not in the organization. Twins need to throw a pile of cash at Grienke's feet.
    If they sign Grienke, they need to keep Liriano. The idea of the maid knocking on their hotel room door a little too loudly and both of them wetting the bed is too great a situation to pass up.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    If they sign Grienke, they need to keep Liriano. The idea of the maid knocking on their hotel room door a little too loudly and both of them wetting the bed is too great a situation to pass up.
    They need to bring back tweak to get the insane pitcher trifecta.

  19. #39
    At some point you have to stop chasing the pipe dream of Liriano and his "ace potential" and move on, hopefully while also adding some sort of prospect that could develop into a contributor. I would rather pay Anibal Sanchez 12.5 million than Liriano any day of the week. I get the "potential" and "upside" of Liriano, but not trading him when his contract is nearly up and letting him walk for nothing is stupid.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by chopper0080 View Post
    At some point you have to stop chasing the pipe dream of Liriano and his "ace potential" and move on, hopefully while also adding some sort of prospect that could develop into a contributor. I would rather pay Anibal Sanchez 12.5 million than Liriano any day of the week. I get the "potential" and "upside" of Liriano, but not trading him when his contract is nearly up and letting him walk for nothing is stupid.
    Thinking someone is going to trust Liriano in a stretch run is just as stupid.

    You can trade him for a player on the level of Cole Devries... or HOld on to him and not further deplete your roster for the rest of the year...

    If someone actually offers something worthwhile, then sure trade him... but for a throwaway prospect the trade is not worth adding to the already huge depth problem in the rotation.

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