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Thread: Jose Christensen: Wimmers May Need Tommy John Surgery

  1. #1

    Joe Christensen: Wimmers May Need Tommy John Surgery

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/164526046.html

    Also, an interesting quote from Terry Ryan in the Pioneer Press:

    "I don't quite get it," Ryan said. "I'd like to think we can diagnose and make sure we know what's going to go on, but we're not going to let him go any farther until we figure this out."
    In the first season of his return as the Twins' GM, Ryan was planning to evaluate the team's medical operation after a 2011 season marred by injuries to key players like Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau. That evaluation is still ongoing, Ryan said, as is the team's new practice of making Ryan or assistant GM Rob Antony the sole point of contact for reporters on injury updates, though Ryan said he thinks that process has worked well.

    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...mmers-injury-i
    Last edited by East Coast Twin; 08-01-2012 at 04:42 PM.

  2. #2
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    Completely and utterly shocked!!! Who would have guessed he would need surgery after trying to pitch through a partially torn UCL. <insert heavy heavy doses of sarcasm>

  3. #3
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    I know the bloggers and on-line commenters aren't close to the situation and don't have all of the data. That's why it's frustrating that the bloggers get right and the team medical staff and management get it wrong so often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Twin View Post
    "I don't quite get it," Ryan said. "I'd like to think we can diagnose and make sure we know what's going to go on, but we're not going to let him go any farther until we figure this out."
    I think that's as close as JR gets to saying "some asses are going to get fired over this". While many on this board advocate wholesale firing of everything and everyone, that's just not how these things work and shows just how little understanding the average forum poster has for how a business operates. It takes time to evaluate where the problem is and how to fix it. If you fire everybody, you're just as likely to continue repeating the same mistakes with the next batch of hires (plus, it's bloody hard to find people who don't suck at their jobs).

    Hopefully this is the straw that pushes the front office to the breaking point and allows them to fix the medical staff problems.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    the other problem with firing people is that encourages people to simply lie and cover things up. I've seen that happen first hand in the medical profession, which can lead to other really big problems down the road... No doubt in my mind that the medical staff needs some accountability, but simply firing everyone without giving people a chance to improve is equally stupid... that said, I think that the axe is coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    the other problem with firing people is that encourages people to simply lie and cover things up. I've seen that happen first hand in the medical profession, which can lead to other really big problems down the road...
    It's not unique to the medical profession. I remember the first time a subordinate lied to me about a problem and covered it up because she thought she'd be fired... I was like "WHAT THE HELL, you wouldn't get fired for that!" but by the time we caught the server issue she covered up, the entire thing was coming unraveled at the seams and I was almost fired for it.

    Creating a fear-based environment and expecting results never works. God knows I am speaking from experience... I've had plenty of bosses who thought that was the way to do things and they never got anything close to my best performance because of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Twin View Post

    Also, an interesting quote from Terry Ryan in the Pioneer Press:

    "I don't quite get it," Ryan said. "I'd like to think we can diagnose and make sure we know what's going to go on, but we're not going to let him go any farther until we figure this out."
    In the first season of his return as the Twins' GM, Ryan was planning to evaluate the team's medical operation after a 2011 season marred by injuries to key players like Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau. That evaluation is still ongoing, Ryan said, as is the team's new practice of making Ryan or assistant GM Rob Antony the sole point of contact for reporters on injury updates, though Ryan said he thinks that process has worked well.
    So Ryan tried to fix (and he thinks he fixed) the communication process, instead of the medical/training situation in the organization.

    Great. Lets not focus on how to avoid or reduce the likelihood of a disaster, lest focus on an Emergency Response Plan...

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Come on Twins. Its not even funny to joke about anymore. This has to be fixed. Please send Alex to someone that can help him.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    It's not unique to the medical profession. I remember the first time a subordinate lied to me about a problem and covered it up because she thought she'd be fired... I was like "WHAT THE HELL, you wouldn't get fired for that!" but by the time we caught the server issue she covered up, the entire thing was coming unraveled at the seams and I was almost fired for it.

    Creating a fear-based environment and expecting results never works. God knows I am speaking from experience... I've had plenty of bosses who thought that was the way to do things and they never got anything close to my best performance because of it.
    I've seen that first hand as well.... There's no shame in being cautious about it. That said, I think we are getting very close to a point where someone should lose a job... I'd probably start with the guy in charge of the staff.

  10. #10
    again, name me ONE legit pitcher who successfully pitched with the partially torn UCL after rehab & didnt need surgery.
    Aroldys Vizcaino of ATL was the one mentioned last yr as possibly showing teams how to rehab the UCL as he didnt need surgery. Come 2012 & he did, tear it, missing the whole yr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I've seen that first hand as well.... There's no shame in being cautious about it. That said, I think we are getting very close to a point where someone should lose a job... I'd probably start with the guy in charge of the staff.
    Yep. People wanted JR to act immediately but that wouldn't have been prudent or smart. He's only been back in the GM position for ~9 months and it takes time to evaluate this sort of thing.

    Now that he's approaching the one year mark, it's time to take action and fix the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Yep. People wanted JR to act immediately but that wouldn't have been prudent or smart. He's only been back in the GM position for ~9 months and it takes time to evaluate this sort of thing.

    Now that he's approaching the one year mark, it's time to take action and fix the problem.
    Why wasn't it time to take action during the Scott Baker debacle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Why wasn't it time to take action during the Scott Baker debacle?
    How many doctors outside the organization examined Baker? I doubt JR ignored the situation but it's hard to pin that one on the medical staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    How many doctors outside the organization examined Baker? I doubt JR ignored the situation but it's hard to pin that one on the medical staff.
    I'm talking about the (mis)-timing of the latest quote from TR. The Baker event was when that bell should have been rung. And the Twins management had made the situation worse by letting it be known that they considered that Baker was "soft".

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I'm talking about the (mis)-timing of the latest quote from TR. The Baker event was when that bell should have been rung. And the Twins management had made the situation worse by letting it be known that they considered that Baker was "soft".
    Let's stop blurring the issues. The "soft" comments were ridiculous and completely unwarranted but really have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    The medical staff, by all accounts, did their job with Baker, didn't they? Everybody was mis-diagnosing Scott. It's an unfortunate situation but from what I've read, there is little medical blame to be thrown around in that situation.

    But let me be clear. I've wanted to see change in the Twins medical staff for a long time. All I'm arguing is that it's not wrong for JR to take some time to decide how to make the proper changes. If by next Opening Day we see the same schleps running the team's medical program while crap like this continues to happen, then I will be the first guy in line with a "FIRE EVERYBODY" sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Let's stop blurring the issues. The "soft" comments were ridiculous and completely unwarranted but really have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    I agree with everything up to the last phrase. The situation regarding personnel with the medical/training staff and the FO go "hand-in-hand" and demonstrate yet another blind eye to the developmental situation of a key prospect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post

    But let me be clear. I've wanted to see change in the Twins medical staff for a long time. All I'm arguing is that it's not wrong for JR to take some time to decide how to make the proper changes. If by next Opening Day we see the same schleps running the team's medical program while crap like this continues to happen, then I will be the first guy in line with a "FIRE EVERYBODY" sign.
    I again, mostly agree with what you say and I'm not advocating the "Fire Everybody" solution. It's just that the clock has been ticking since last October, Ryan had an admittedly monumental job in front of him, given the state of the club; perhaps he could have brought in more outside consultancy help to more immediately address the broad range of issues facing the club. Clearly, in his initial press conference, he identified the injury problem and training/rehab techniques as representing a huge failure to the 2011 Twins. Thus far in 9 months, little seems to have changed.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I again, mostly agree with what you say and I'm not advocating the "Fire Everybody" solution. It's just that the clock has been ticking since last October, Ryan had an admittedly monumental job in front of him, given the state of the club; perhaps he could have brought in more outside consultancy help to more immediately address the broad range of issues facing the club. Clearly, in his initial press conference, he identified the injury problem and training/rehab techniques as representing a huge failure to the 2011 Twins. Thus far in 9 months, little seems to have changed.
    I agree that it would have been nice to see more movement on this front already but I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Generally, I try to give people time to sort out mistakes and make the right moves and those moves aren't going to happen overnight. But, again, JR hasn't been back at the helm for all that long. I'll give him a little more time before condemning the entire front office as inept.

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