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Thread: Olney: Twins looking for more pitching

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    Owner All-Star Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Olney: Twins looking for more pitching

    Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine, Twins GM Terry Ryan tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Insider), that the organization is looking for more starting pitching.

    The Twins rotation is carrying a hefty 6.06 ERA, highest in the AL, while allowing 1.69 home runs per nine innings pitched, the highest rate in all of baseball (extra disappointing since they play in a pitcher-friendly ballpark). What's more, they seem to be losing 1.3 starters per week. After losing PJ Walters and Carl Pavano, the Twins are in need of promoting for the minors once again or reaching into the bullpen for a spot start.

    That, however, does not address the long term needs for the rotation and, as Olney alluded to, may require the Twins to trade Denard Span, Josh Willingham or Justin Morneau to get some adequate pitching.

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Hageman View Post
    Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine
    Yeah, pretty much. Another exclusive by Scoop Olney.

  3. #3
    I'll have to follow this Olney guy more closely. I didn't see this coming at all. I never thought it might come to trading players...what happened to buying them outright or filling the staff with 4th and 5th starter candidates from the sludges of AAAAers. I'm glad to read that Terry Ryan recognizes the Twins need, too, in this category. Thanks for asking Terry that question, Olney!

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    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Hageman View Post
    Ripped from the front pages of Duh Magazine, Twins GM Terry Ryan tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Insider), that the organization is looking for more starting pitching.

    The Twins rotation is carrying a hefty 6.06 ERA, highest in the AL, while allowing 1.69 home runs per nine innings pitched, the highest rate in all of baseball (extra disappointing since they play in a pitcher-friendly ballpark). What's more, they seem to be losing 1.3 starters per week. After losing PJ Walters and Carl Pavano, the Twins are in need of promoting for the minors once again or reaching into the bullpen for a spot start.

    That, however, does not address the long term needs for the rotation and, as Olney alluded to, may require the Twins to trade Denard Span, Josh Willingham or Justin Morneau to get some adequate pitching.
    How long before the myth that Target Field is pitcher-friendly wears off?

    Any ballpark where the Twins are taking almost half of all plate appearances will look pitcher-friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    How long before the myth that Target Field is pitcher-friendly wears off?

    Any ballpark where the Twins are taking almost half of all plate appearances will look pitcher-friendly.
    Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.

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    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Just think how much better the Twins hitters would look facing the Twins pitchers. Joe might even hit some homeruns!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    30 million came off the books last year. Only 3 million of it was spent on upgrading the starting pitching.
    Ryan made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    30 million came off the books last year. Only 3 million of it was spent on upgrading the starting pitching.
    Ryan made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it.
    Do you think any GM would reduce his or her payroll for competitive reasons?

    GMs want to spend; owners want to save.

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    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.
    Thank you. I accept your apology.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Ryan has stated that he can ask Pohlad for more Money. There were moderate price free agents for 1.5 to 3 million more.
    Instead, Ryan went dumpster diving and ended up throwing away three million dollars.
    Its very similar to good consumer shopping. Buy cheap and risk throwing away your money. Pay a little more and get a quality Product.
    Last edited by Highabove; 06-18-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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    Senior Member Triple-A Teflon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Ryan has stated that he can ask Pohlad for more Money. There were moderate price free agents for 1.5 to 3 million more.
    Instead, Ryan went dumpster diving and ended up throwing away three million dollars.
    Its very similar to good consumer shopping. Buy cheap and risk throwing away your money. Pay a little more and get a quality Product.
    We must have the Flowbee of starting pitching staffs, then.

  12. #12
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherezade View Post
    Do you think any GM would reduce his or her payroll for competitive reasons?

    GMs want to spend; owners want to save.
    Disclaimer: I have no inside information.

    I disagree, Cuz, in my job and any job working with payroll. You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.

    I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization.

    I also believe that the money could come back if the window opens up and the team looks like they could contend.

    I'm hopeful that Terry Ryan has a plan beyond this year. Signing Edwin Jackson for a year and 10 million may not been part of the long term plan.

    We are rebuilding... We are not re-loading. If I was an owner... I'd appreciate a sensible approach to the finances. However, If I was owner... I'd be staffing the squad myself. My GM would do the paper work... lol...

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    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Why would we want more pitching? This is stupid.

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    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Disclaimer: I have no inside information.

    I disagree, Cuz, in my job and any job working with payroll. You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.

    I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization.

    I also believe that the money could come back if the window opens up and the team looks like they could contend.

    I'm hopeful that Terry Ryan has a plan beyond this year. Signing Edwin Jackson for a year and 10 million may not been part of the long term plan.

    We are rebuilding... We are not re-loading. If I was an owner... I'd appreciate a sensible approach to the finances. However, If I was owner... I'd be staffing the squad myself. My GM would do the paper work... lol...
    Thank you. We've got to get past this "if we only spent more money" mindset. $95-100M is more than sufficient to put together a team that contends if it is spent wisely. And if the money is not spent wisely, it doesn't matter how big your budget it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    You have to know when to spend and when not to. I don't believe it is the job of the GM to just ask for the Max and start spending it and do it again next year. I think GM's and the Team President's get to stay in those positions cuz they can be prudent at the proper juncture.
    I would buy that, to a degree, if it weren't the case that the payroll amount is also strongly dictated by revenues and the success of the team. If the team is awful and struggling to get 20,000 to 25,000 into the park for large chunks of the season, ownership isn't going to be super-thrilled about hiking up the budget 10 million dollars next year. They might actually go in the opposite direction, or hold steady.

    If you have a glaring need at starting pitching, and don't address it, there are going to be consequences. By "address it", I don't mean signing Jason Marquis. Even though some bad luck was also involved (Pavano's woes, Baker's surprise or undetected season-ending injury), they should have viewed the loss of Kyle Gibson the same as if Baker, Liriano or any other starter had gone down, since he was supposed to contend for the rotation.

    I don't want to criticize their off season too much because I think it was successful in a lot of ways (signing Willingham, stockpiling draft picks in lieu of retaining Kubel and Cuddy). The seeds of failure were planted long before the 2011-12 offseason. And I'm afraid for the future of the starting pitching because the GM has repeatedly said that he does not believe in signing outside free agents, and they just drafted a bunch of relief pitchers (except for Barrios, who is very raw).

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    Thank you. We've got to get past this "if we only spent more money" mindset. $95-100M is more than sufficient to put together a team that contends if it is spent wisely. And if the money is not spent wisely, it doesn't matter how big your budget it.
    What are you talking about? More money always means more wins. Just ask the Phillies, or the Red Sox...
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    What are you talking about? More money always means more wins. Just ask the Phillies, or the Red Sox...
    While money doesn't always mean more wins, it does make it easier to compete and get around mistakes. For instance, the 2010 Twins survived Morneau's injury in large part b/c they could afford to use a bench spot for Thome. They also spent around 12m to sign Pavano and Hudson. The 02-06 Twins never got to have an assets like that.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Congratulations on being the first one to think of that! Enjoy the enormous bonus I'm sure you'll get. If only anyone...ANYONE...could have considered that and done some analysis that controls for teams. That'd be awesome.
    The park factors compare the Twins at home vs. Twins on the road and Twins opponents at Target vs. the opponents while Twins are the visiting team.

    So someone did consider that...in the early 80's (or earlier) when they started measuring that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gil4 View Post
    The park factors compare the Twins at home vs. Twins on the road and Twins opponents at Target vs. the opponents while Twins are the visiting team.

    So someone did consider that...in the early 80's (or earlier) when they started measuring that.
    Bummer...I guess he's gonna have to give back that bonus. Hope he didn't spend it already.

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I really do believe that it's completely possible that Terry Ryan suggested a payroll cut to ownership based on the Free Agents available and the current state of the Twins organization. .
    And then he re-signed Matt Capps to an above market contract and signed Marquis to that contract too.

    It is ok to dream. But the reality is that the interim GM is well past his prime as well...
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    twitter: @thrylos98

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