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Thread: Should Dozier stay up?

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Should Dozier work on some things at AAA? Probably.

    I don't see who you call up to replace him though. The other potential left-side infielders on the 40-man are Nishioka and Valencia, who've both been awful at AAA. The only infielder warranting a call up is Parmelee, and calling him up would limit defensive options.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Dozier stays. His mentality is tough, so he'll learn enough this season to survive in the bigs, then come back better next season. Fielding errors are just a matter of getting more reps, then they'll mostly go away. Dozier is going to be a solid SS, but he IS a rookie, and rookies do make mistakes. Practice, practice, practice.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That wasn't the arguments, he's a fine utility guy, but that's not what people were saying above. People keep saying, or suggesting, he's a legit starter, and he's just not. And, batting average? What about OBP and SLG? sorry, not buying it. He is what we've seen for years now, a below average MLB player who should be a backup player.
    I don't read anyone above arguing Casilla is a legit starter, a couple of guys said he has been fine defensively (which he has) but other than that I don't see anyone advocating for him to play everyday. Right now he's at least a left handed batting option while Mauer is out.

  4. #24
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    fair enough, I misread the comments then. I just want him replaced next year, as a starter. Not sure how that is done, while also fixing the pitching and 3B and maybe 1B....
    Lighten up Francis....

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    fair enough, I misread the comments then. I just want him replaced next year, as a starter. Not sure how that is done, while also fixing the pitching and 3B and maybe 1B....
    Who would you replace him with? Either from our current system, or going out and getting somebody? I'm not sure where our middle infield depth is at in the farm system and really am tired of seeing the revolving door of "veteran" FA infielders each and every year... We just should have kept O-dog and had him play short until Dozier was ready.

  6. #26
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    I think the only way Dozier gets sent down is if Valencia and/or Burroughs is ready to be an everyday 3b. If you take Dozier out of the equation, our starting IF right now is Plouffe-Carroll-Casilla. Do we really want to do that?

  7. #27
    Junior Member Rookie twinslover's Avatar
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    Sending Dozier to AAA isn't going to do him any good at this point. Most of his errors have been mental lapses and it seems pretty clear that his slump at the plate is effecting his defense, just like nearly every other rookie I've ever seen. The only way he's going to make the adjustments to major league baseball is by playing major league baseball.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauerzy4Prez View Post
    Who would you replace him with? Either from our current system, or going out and getting somebody? I'm not sure where our middle infield depth is at in the farm system and really am tired of seeing the revolving door of "veteran" FA infielders each and every year... We just should have kept O-dog and had him play short until Dozier was ready.
    I don't think anyone thought much of Dozier, who was a 24 year old at Ft. Myers, before this year. The Twins were never waiting for him to be ready because no one expected him to make the majors. I'll take Casilla over Hudson thank you very much.

  9. #29
    When UZR defensive stats came aboard a few yrs ago....I stopped using errors as the sole meter for defense.
    Official scoring in MLB games is horrible & I cannot gauge a player on those anymore.
    Dozier is 15th of 26 SSs (via Fangraphs) in defense (250INN....Brian's amt). There is nothing wrong with his play so far. He's missed some plays, he's made some plays.
    Offensively, he's fine. .952OPS vs LHP so far .554 vs RHP. Needs to play everyday right now & see how he progresses.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A Dilligaf69's Avatar
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    Keep him here, he needs to learn and we need a long term answer at SS... Is Dozier it??? IDK but sending him to AAA won't give us the answer.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Triple-A Dilligaf69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    I don't think anyone thought much of Dozier, who was a 24 year old at Ft. Myers, before this year. The Twins were never waiting for him to be ready because no one expected him to make the majors. I'll take Casilla over Hudson thank you very much.





    Me too...easily!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    When UZR defensive stats came aboard a few yrs ago....I stopped using errors as the sole meter for defense.
    Official scoring in MLB games is horrible & I cannot gauge a player on those anymore.
    Dozier is 15th of 26 SSs (via Fangraphs) in defense (250INN....Brian's amt). There is nothing wrong with his play so far. He's missed some plays, he's made some plays.
    Offensively, he's fine. .952OPS vs LHP so far .554 vs RHP. Needs to play everyday right now & see how he progresses.
    You likely know this, but some may not...I think most would agree that errors alone is a bit of a broadsword tool when a scalpel is more appropriate, but I think most agree that the more advanced defensive stats are very volatile without quite large sample sizes (like full seasons or even more). Using them still might be better than errors, but one needs to be careful with quarter-season-sized data.

  13. #33
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    Well, since I said "not sure how that's done", I don't have a suggestion in June of what they should do at 2B next year just yet. And, I'd rather they get some pitching first, so who knows, maybe we get to watch Casilla again next year, and wonder just when the young guy will finally reach his prime....
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #34
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    Bench him for a bit and play Carroll there. The errors and non-error errors are demoralizing to team morale.

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    When UZR defensive stats came aboard a few yrs ago....I stopped using errors as the sole meter for defense.
    Official scoring in MLB games is horrible & I cannot gauge a player on those anymore.
    Dozier is 15th of 26 SSs (via Fangraphs) in defense (250INN....Brian's amt). There is nothing wrong with his play so far. He's missed some plays, he's made some plays.
    Offensively, he's fine. .952OPS vs LHP so far .554 vs RHP. Needs to play everyday right now & see how he progresses.
    Agreed. I hate errors as a stat. UZR is much better. Dozier is doing fine. Keep him up.

    My favorite comment about errors: You have to do something right before you get charged with an error.
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Double-A
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    I went to Scheel's a few weeks ago and wanted to buy a Dozier T shirt. The manager told me that he wanted to be sure Dozier was going to stick before ordering a bunch of shirts with his name on them (he'd been stuck with a bunch of Hughes shirts). I like the guy, and THIS is the year to let him play and see what happens.

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    OK, with last night's performance, I'm starting to ask if it's time to make an adjustment and send Dozier back down for more seasoning. He started off hot, but both his bat and (especially) his fielding have tailed off the past couple of weeks. He's been up here for about a month now, and has 8 errors. He's made some spectacular plays, too, but that doesn't cover not making the ones that should be made.

    I know there is an argument to be made that he should be given a chance to work this out up here in the bigs. Give him more time to adjust to major league pitching and learning how to field. Given we are not contenders this season, maybe that's OK; losing a few extra games won't hurt that much (although I love to win regardless). I also don't know what the corresponding move would be, who'd you would bring up. Carroll can go back over to short, but it's not as if we have a bunch of middle infielders knocking on the door at Rochester. But now that our starting pitching is starting to turn around a little bit, don't we owe it to them to give them the best defense possible?

    Thoughts?

    I see both sides of this, but I find the latter more convincing. He's a rookie; he's streaky. It happens. Besides, the Twins' second option at SS isn't as good on two fronts: 1) the guy who replaces him probably wouldn't have any better defense or offense, and that's a short-term (i.e. this-year-only) deal, and 2) the guy who will eventually replace him probably needs the minor league seasoning more than he.

    I'm fine with this scenario: keep Dozier on the big club now, and let him work out his difficulties. If he turns into an everyday guy, we win. If we replace him with, say, a Florimon later on, and he moves into the everyday second-baseman role, we win. I just don't really see the upside of having him return to AAA.

    That said, Casilla must be feeling some heat under his seat right about now, eh?

  18. #38
    Right now, here is no one on the farm and all your candidates for any of the infield spots (Dozier, Casilla, Carroll, Plouffe, Burroughs, Valencia) all are taking lumps. It's who you want to put stock in. Can Valencia come back? Will Plouffe find a home at third? Carroll is Carroll and signed for another year and provides the vet leadership, although if he gets hot and someone wants him...go for it. Alexi is playing for a bigger contract. Twins will not feel he is worth it, but you can't trade nothing. oshi is still around collecting a paycheck in the minors...talk about the Bill Smith albatross! Dozier is either the real thing or a stop gap. Others would need to be added to the 40-man. I can wait to see what the Twins team looks like come August!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Casilla is fine defensively. But he is not going to be on the 2013 Twins.
    Right on both counts. I like him as a utility player just fine. He hits well enough to perform THAT role. But it's clear the organization (okay, Gardy mostly) just doesn't like the guy. It's funny how that perception works. Because he's a Latin player, there seems to be this belief that he's either becoming a star, or he's worthless to us. But players like Tolbert, Punto, etc. are accepted for their shortcomings, and are celebrated as guys who battle their tail off to stay in the league. I can't think of a single instance of Casilla dogging it out there or showing like he doesn't care. This just is what he is.

    On Dozier - We should definitely keep him up. I know he only got 28 games in at Triple-A, but this guy hit at an .800+ OPS all over the minors. He's 25 now, and his MLB hitting after 120 plate appearance hasn't been great, but let's play this out some more. Again, as we say for virtually EVERY position on the Twins, it's not like they Mike Trout or Bryce Harper ready to take his place.

  20. #40
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I'm having a hard time trying to understand what benefit would currently come from sending Dozier back to AAA.

    Let the kid play.

    Sort of off topic, sort of on, in response to posts above: IMO there is no way Alexi Casilla is an everyday major league SS. It's been tried before, as recently as last year.

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