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Thread: Boras, Morales interested in long term deal.

  1. #141
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    OK, I don't think Pinto is a candidate to be a regular DH. As a matter of fact, his offense would have to increase more than his defense would have to improve for Pinto to be a regular DH. Yes, he needs work receiving, but he has they tools to be an adequate catcher.

  2. #142
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Just to be clear, since you're using a word I brought up as a way to distinguish two different kinds of signings - Morales on a 1-2 year deal isn't what I would call a "supplement". He's a buy-low patch at that point. Which has it's merits certainly, depending upon how you and the club feel about Pinto largely.

    But Morales is not the same kind of signing as Hughes and Nolasco where you are signing for both the present and the contending future. He's just a patch that everyone knows is gone before serious contending happens. I'm not sure anyone has suggested he's anything but that, even those in favor of signing him again.
    Hughes is signed through 2016. A two year deal for Morales would have him here through 2016. I'm not seeing the huge difference. If anything, signing Morales for longer would seem to be for when "serious contending" hopefully happens.
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  3. #143
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    OK, I don't think Pinto is a candidate to be a regular DH. As a matter of fact, his offense would have to increase more than his defense would have to improve for Pinto to be a regular DH. Yes, he needs work receiving, but he has they tools to be an adequate catcher.
    He's a rookie, but his bat and raw power looked legit. Any negatives you might throw at him are kind of mitigated by the fact that his OPS this year is 150 points better than the guy people want to give a hefty pile of money to. Morales is a better hitter than this...but Pinto likely hasn't hit his ceiling either.

  4. #144
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Hughes is signed through 2016. A two year deal for Morales would have him here through 2016. I'm not seeing the huge difference. If anything, signing Morales for longer would seem to be for when "serious contending" hopefully happens.
    Hughes was signed when 2016 was still a legit target for contending, before Sano and Buxton's injuries. Signing Morales now, knowing 2017 is now a more likely target is exactly what I'm saying it is - a patch.

  5. #145
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Hughes was signed when 2016 was still a legit target for contending, before Sano and Buxton's injuries. Signing Morales now, knowing 2017 is now a more likely target is exactly what I'm saying it is - a patch.
    I hope to see the Twins in contention before 2017. But I do agree if we're waiting for the minor leagues to get them there, 2016 isn't realistic.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  6. #146
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Oh cmon Psuedo, nothing jumped the shark you just stopped following your own arguments. Morales would be a patch signing. Your Pitt examples were to supplement the core, Morales is not a supplement. He's a patch. Just like Pelfrey or Correia or Willingham. He's not Nolasco or Hughes - those are two different kinds of signings and you and others are muddling them as the same thing.

    I'm a huge advocate (even when they fail so far like Nolasco has) in signings designed to supplement the team now and long-term. 100% behind them. Patch signings of old players for several years? No. No thank you. And these are not the same thing.

    The Overbay comp was about the ridiculous notion that a winning clubhouse matters down the line.
    Now this I do agree with. As I just stated in my last post, supplementing a roster with a couple quality veterans, productive players, is prudent, and even more so for 2015+, as it happens! Once again, Morales or otherwise, I don't know that anyone is advocating, necessarily, a veteran player for DH, LF, or CF, as a long term signing/patch. I know I'm not. But I also don't view a 2 year deal, or possibly a club controlled 3rd year, as anything long term.

    One issue I would argue with you about is the value of a winning clubhouse mattering. I myself have used this reference before, and I still believe in it. However, I think it might be necessary to better explain this comment and philosophy. It's not so much about young prospects joining a team that is winning, but rather, joining a team that has a winning "attitude" of professionalism about it.

    Kirby Puckett had this attitude when he played for the Twins, and did much for younger players, and this has been well documented, especially for Torii Hunter when he was an up and coming youngster. And Hunter, in turn, passed leadership to the teams he played on, especially to Span, who in turn, attempted to pass along the things he learned to Revere.
    And along with a huge organizational mistake in losing Hunter, (which I brought up in a semi-to-real truth article article built on fun speculation), I think one of the biggest mistakes the Twins have made in past several years was not ponying up to keep Cuddyer. The guy was never a true star, but his production was real and his leadership and professionalism were very much tangible. And he has proven the last season and a half, before his shoulder injury, that he had real life yet. Now, it remains to see what will really happen, but the Rockies have spoken recently about wanting to re-sign Cuddy not only for what he brings to the field, but what he brings to the clubhouse, and as an influence to their younger players. Not my words, but theirs.

    Personally, I'd love Cuddy back on a 1 or 2 year deal. But that's actually beside the point. I don't know Morales' personality or leadership skills. But if he can produce as he has most of his career in 2015, forgetting the actual contract parameters for the moment, and can be a positive influence on the Twins young Latin talent, I think that's a consideration. Same with any other fill-in player the Twins may sign for, let's say LF, to replace Willingham. Production and a quality influence may go hand in hand with a solid, fair 1 or 2 year deal with whomever they may sign. It's not only the productive bridge they may bring to the team, but the attitude and professionalism they might provide.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
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  7. #147
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I hope to see the Twins in contention before 2017. But I do agree if we're waiting for the minor leagues to get them there, 2016 isn't realistic.
    Sorry Chief, I agree with you that the team should always try to win, but the notion that this team is going to contend via anything other than the minor league studs is just misguided. They have too many holes and not enough money to fill them any other way.

    And that's not unusual, that's what teams do to go from rebuilding to contending. They need their young, cheap, impact talent to come up and be....well....impactful. It won't happen without that.

  8. #148
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    One issue I would argue with you about is the value of a winning clubhouse mattering.
    I think a positive clubhouse with good chemistry matters. I've yet to hear how anyone thinks Morales will do that. It's more that his mere presence next year will somehow manage to impact subsequent seasons.

    If you want guys to be mentors, you don't have to pay them 8M for a couple years. You can find some on 1 year deals for that.

  9. #149
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    From what I have seen, I think Pinto has the potential, at least, to be a regular DH. I generally like approach at the plate, and his power is definite.

    But watching him last season when he was pretty much the regular C, I really didn't think he looked bad behind the plate. I think ages get tossed around as if they are absolutes somehow. As if every prospect should be this and that by a certain age with no regard to position, culture, injury, etc. Pinto is still a young man and young player. There is still a lot of potential there.

    Despite expected regression, very much expected regression, I'm still in the re-signing Suzuki camp because I think he really does handle a staff very well and provides great intangibles to the club. But I'm also big on Pinto's future, and even Herrmann's as a quality and versatile bench player. At least until some of the Twins talented lower level C's approach a higher level.

    Im in favor of Suzuki back, but, and it's a very fine line, only if Pinto gets the work he should.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikecurveball View Post
    Kendrys is a bonified MLB masher. He will continue to hit better as the season rolls on. He is a bird in hand and only 30 or 31 I think. Didn't have any spring training. It's not like our payroll is through the roof. He would be a good sick to have in the mix for a few years until the young talent forces him to the curb IMHO. It's not as tough all of the sudden 5 rookies will be screaming ready to be starters all at once.
    Teams are built through varying avenues, minor league development, free agency etc. You need a good starting 9 plus good pitching, no matter the means of attaining them. Kendra's is a top 9 on any team in the league. We have few others that you can say that about. Why wouldn't we keep him? This idea of blocking someone else is not realistic considering the state of this team and the lack of quality starting 9 players. We have maybe two starters to build around. Do we really think a half a dozen minor leaguers will be top 9 in the next 2-3 years.

  11. #151
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Hughes was signed when 2016 was still a legit target for contending, before Sano and Buxton's injuries. Signing Morales now, knowing 2017 is now a more likely target is exactly what I'm saying it is - a patch.
    Yes, as, it might be a patch. Might indeed be nothing more than that.

    Not sure I agree with 2017 as a target date though. The majority of the players on this team will be intact through 2015 and 2016. Despite some painful setbacks this season in the minors, there is a very real possibility than 2015 will see May, Meyer, Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Vargas, and a return of Hicks, make their appearance at some point. This sets the table well for 2016 with possible appearances/contributions from Polanco, Berrios and Walker amongst others, including some talented relievers who will almost undoubtedly make their presence known.

    So Morales may be a "patch" as may be a vet LF. But what is wrong with that? I know a patch in many things can be a good thing, including here. I mean, crazy analogy, but a patch in a hole in my tire can be a really good thing instead of just immediately replacing said tire. So a productive player "patch" for a couple seasons, possibly with trade value, until one of the talented youngsters is ready would be a bad thing? I guess I don't see the downside here.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
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  13. #152
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    Despite some painful setbacks this season in the minors, there is a very real possibility than 2015 will see May, Meyer, Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Vargas, and a return of Hicks, make their appearance at some point.
    In my eyes - Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, and Polanco are unlikely to see significant time until 2016. Making 2017 a more realistic timetable. But boy do I hope I'm wrong and it goes more the way you suggest!

    Either way - Morales and his dumpy hitting and athleticism that looks more like he's 41 than 31 just don't interest me.

  14. #153
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think a positive clubhouse with good chemistry matters. I've yet to hear how anyone thinks Morales will do that. It's more that his mere presence next year will somehow manage to impact subsequent seasons.

    If you want guys to be mentors, you don't have to pay them 8M for a couple years. You can find some on 1 year deals for that.
    Once again, just to be clearance, I think we're finding some common ground. I don't know Morales' clubhouse influence. Could be great! I just don't know at this point. But, his production could not only be an excellent year or two "patch", but he might be a positive influence. Actually, I'd like to learn more about his personality and leadership skills. But the arguement continues that he, or another potential replacement, as well as a proposed vet LF, are not long term signings, but what you state, a patch.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
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  15. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    In my eyes - Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Berrios, and Polanco are unlikely to see significant time until 2016. Making 2017 a more realistic timetable. But boy do I hope I'm wrong and it goes more the way you suggest!

    Either way - Morales and his dumpy hitting and athleticism that looks more like he's 41 than 31 just don't interest me.
    167/23/80(hits/hr/RBI) for kendrys in 2013. Which 9 do the twins have that can best those numbers?

  16. #155
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikecurveball View Post
    167/23/80(hits/hr/RBI) for kendrys in 2013. Which 9 do the twins have that can best those numbers?
    Shall I point out his 2014 numbers? Morales is about as far away from his 2013 numbers as he is close to Florimon's. He's been that bad.

  17. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Shall I point out his 2014 numbers? Morales is about as far away from his 2013 numbers as he is close to Florimon's. He's been that bad.
    Watch him I in the second half. He had no spring training.

  18. #157
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikecurveball View Post
    Watch him I in the second half. He had no spring training.
    I hope you're right. I was a big fan of his signing, but he's looked completely awful so far.

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  20. #158
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    I think he has played around 33 games this year right?

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    It will sure be fun to compare his numbers to others in the second half. Hope he does well. He has a good track record anyway.

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