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Thread: Boras, Morales interested in long term deal.

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Vargas isn't the guy Morales would be blocking next year, it'd likely be some combination of Pinto/Arcia/Mauer. At least until September or so.

    Which is why Morales makes no sense since he likely wouldn't sign for only one year. Plus...what's he done so far to make us want him back at this point?

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Just turned 31, lifetime .800 OPS switch hitter. Money isn't an issue for the club. Mauer isn't exactly an iron man, Morales can play some first when needed.

    I think there's room for that over the next few years. If...IF...Vargas needs a place to play at some point, there might be a conflict. That's a big if.

    I know I am in the minority, but Waiting around for the minor leagues to provide everything needed to be a WS contender holds zero interest for me.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  4. #23
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    I am NOT a fan of Boras! I understand his objective to make the most money for his players, and thusly, for himself. And I suppose in the long run, he's accomplished goals often. But he has also burned several of his clients in the past with his advice and projections. And I'm also surprised at some of the contracts he has suckered teams in to. No, I don't think Pelfrey's deal qualifies under that umbrella. It's only 2 years, not for that much in proper context, and the Twins truly thought they were getting an even more healthy and rebounding Pelfrey for 2 years, based on last year. And it's actually kind of surprising that Ryan and Boras seem to have a healthy relationship. I hope that bodes well for the future, especially in regard to Meyer. But this all a bit of digression on my part.

    Here is where I get raked over the coals! I know it's coming. But unabashedly, I print my stance, and the reasons behind it.

    I am in favor of re-signing Morales.

    My reasons are very simple. The Twins have one of the best farm systems in all of baseball, seem to be loaded to the gills with talented prospects at almost all positions. And I am as excited as anyone as to the possible futures of these talented youngsters and the, hopefully soon, future of the Twins.

    But it taking just a small step back, I'm also a realist. Buxton and Sano were both slowed this season. This affects the OF, the INF, and possible combinations to come. Example: Plouffe maybe moving to the OF. Willingham is gone at seasons end, if not before. We're uncertain at LF and CF to begin next season. I think Vargas in an excellent prospect. And his talent, production and work ethic, all echoed by Tom Kelley, speak to his future. And he's a perfect fit for DH and a backup to Mauer. But he's also young, has yet to hit AAA, and may not be ready to start 2015. Rosario is loaded with talent, but is still getting on track. Hopefully, Hicks is also getting on track, with a believer/supporter in Rod Carew of all people.

    But to think the Twins will march in to 2015 with Buxton, Sano, Vargas, Rosario and Hicks all ready to assume a starting/primary role in the lineup is naive. A) we need to plug guys in to the daily lineup to not only have a chance to win, but to also promote a winning attitude/possibility B) it doesn't hurt to have at least a couple quality, productive veterans for the youngsters to work with and learn from.

    Yes Morales has been a bit of a disappointment so far, which might bring his cost down, but he practically crawled out of bed/golf cart when he joined the Twins. He's also been getting in to a groove lately. He's also been a proven producer when healthy, and could be a nice influence for many of the Twins young Latin players.

    Now, maybe he's a jerk and a bad clubhouse guy, though I've never heard anything to suggest this. And maybe he and Boras will try to parlay a DH with a so-so 2014 in to a big and long term deal. Under any of these circumstances, I say NO WAY. I'll take my chances elsewhere.

    But something fair dollar-wise, 1-3 years, or options involved, I'm all in. He fits the heart of the lineup with a proven, veteran producer, who can also be moved at a higher value with more time put in.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
    --Lou Brown

  5. #24
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Just turned 31, lifetime .800 OPS switch hitter. Money isn't an issue for the club. Mauer isn't exactly an iron man, Morales can play some first when needed.

    I think there's room for that over the next few years. If...IF...Vargas needs a place to play at some point, there might be a conflict. That's a big if.

    I know I am in the minority, but Waiting around for the minor leagues to provide everything needed to be a WS contender holds zero interest for me.
    Also what chief said. And still young 30's. Honestly, where is the downside here?

    If everyone is healthy and playing even close to their potential, let's say the lineup is:

    1) Santana=CF/ and or SS
    2) Dozier= 2B
    3) Mauer=1B
    4) ?
    5) ?
    6) ?

    Arcia and Plouffe could definitely be part of that. But isn't a solid veteran bat or two mixed in there a better alternative while waiting for Sano, Buxton and Vargas to arrive?
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
    --Lou Brown

  6. #25
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    Also what chief said. And still young 30's. Honestly, where is the downside here?
    Doesn't that depend heavily on the years and dollars?

    Guys that are basically 1B/DHs are not the hardest guys to find. Especially not if you want to pay them 10+ million a year.

  7. #26
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post

    Arcia and Plouffe could definitely be part of that. But isn't a solid veteran bat or two mixed in there a better alternative while waiting for Sano, Buxton and Vargas to arrive?
    Sure, as long as he's gone by the 2015 deadline I think he has value. That value over 2 years gets greatly reduced if he has a poor first half next year though. Ideally they get him for 1 more, unlikely Boras goes for that however.

  8. #27
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Just turned 31, lifetime .800 OPS switch hitter. Money isn't an issue for the club. Mauer isn't exactly an iron man, Morales can play some first when needed.

    I think there's room for that over the next few years. If...IF...Vargas needs a place to play at some point, there might be a conflict. That's a big if.

    I know I am in the minority, but Waiting around for the minor leagues to provide everything needed to be a WS contender holds zero interest for me.
    I'm generally on board with this. I don't think you can count on Vargas being anywhere near the lineup on opening day next year.

    My question would be what they truly think of Pinto. If no chance he can catch then I wouldn't want to lock in a 1B and DH for next year (with also the possibility of Sano ending there). If Pinto can catch, or at least part time catch, then I would be all over this for a year, possibly two, if the money was right.
    Papers...business papers.

  9. #28
    Was just watching Morneau in the Home Run Derby. It makes me both sad and angry. I find it ironic that an offense starved team like the Twins didn't feel the need to find a spot for a fan favorite like Morneau, yet a year later we are paying Kendrys Morales $3 million more for only a half-season to fill basically the same roll Morneau would have filled (and not doing it nearly as well).

    I would say absolutely no way to extending Morales, but I wouldn't put anything past the Twins front office. I thought the same thing about Pelfrey.

  10. #29
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    Rather than signing Morales (who I classify as underwhelming) why not seek a younger power hitter who is also a competent OF? Extending Willingham makes no sense. Combine the annual salaries of Morales and Willingham and the Twins can definately sign an outstanding OF! There has been way too much money spent on hole-pluggers. Use FA money for real talent and plug holes from within the franchise.

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  12. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Rather than signing Morales (who I classify as underwhelming) why not seek a younger power hitter who is also a competent OF? Extending Willingham makes no sense. Combine the annual salaries of Morales and Willingham and the Twins can definately sign an outstanding OF! There has been way too much money spent on hole-pluggers. Use FA money for real talent and plug holes from within the franchise.
    Got a name in mind?

    The list of 2015 free agent OFers/DHswho are younger than Morales: Melky Cabrera, Delmon Young, possibly Colby Rasmus, Tyler Colvin, probably Billy Butler. If you add those roughly the same age: Jeff Francour, Chris Young, Nick Shierholz, probably Nic Markakis, possibly Denard Span.

    Which of those is likely to be a better hitter than Morales?

    I agree with Lev that the terms matter, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss out of hand the idea that Morales can be an asset going forward.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  14. #31

    no!

    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Talked w/ Scott Boras. Gushed about how much Morales likes it here. Said a long-term marriage is certainly in play. #mntwins

    Mlbtraderumors link.


    Absolutely not! No way!

  15. #32
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Doesn't that depend heavily on the years and dollars?

    Guys that are basically 1B/DHs are not the hardest guys to find. Especially not if you want to pay them 10+ million a year.
    Yeppers.

    And as I stated, absolutely depends on the dollars and years. If acceptable, I think a smart move. Especially short term, 1-2 years, with the possibility of a trade in the future involved.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
    --Lou Brown

  16. #33
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Denard Span.
    I'd kind of like to see this signing. Force Hicks to RF where he's likely to be long-term (assuming he has his stuff straight by then). Parms over in LF. Let DH go to some combo of Pinto/Arcia.

  17. #34
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    Yeppers.

    And as I stated, absolutely depends on the dollars and years. If acceptable, I think a smart move. Especially short term, 1-2 years, with the possibility of a trade in the future involved.
    I honestly can't see Morales signing for anything less than 2 years. If you want him for one more year you might as well hand him the QO then.

  18. #35
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Rather than signing Morales (who I classify as underwhelming) why not seek a younger power hitter who is also a competent OF? Extending Willingham makes no sense. Combine the annual salaries of Morales and Willingham and the Twins can definately sign an outstanding OF! There has been way too much money spent on hole-pluggers. Use FA money for real talent and plug holes from within the franchise.
    Agree in principal.

    And I hope we find a nice OF option with power and RBI potential for next year, because like it or not, we have holes to fill for a year or two, unless we just want to raise a white flag for the sake of promoting kids who aren't ready yet. Sorry...but it's a reality.

    The Twins have the ability to promote several more top prospects this year and next, pitchers and position players. But that doesn't eliminate temporary holes. And the Twins have the available finances, with certain salaries coming off the books, to make a couple solid investments for the lineup.
    "Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."
    --Lou Brown

  19. #36
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'd kind of like to see this [Span] signing.
    "Trade me once, shame on you, ..."?

  20. #37
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    The terms obviously matter but I'd love to see Kendrys Plural back next year.

    He's a legit bat with pop. The kids will make their way North eventually. Kendrys won't block anyone. If Kennys is ready... They'll find a way.

    I haven't seen him play but I'd be surprised if Kennys can outdo Kendrys for at least a few years.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  22. #38
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'd kind of like to see this signing. Force Hicks to RF where he's likely to be long-term (assuming he has his stuff straight by then). Parms over in LF. Let DH go to some combo of Pinto/Arcia.
    Washington has been trying to find someone to take the disappointing Span. Parms is not an everyday player. Hicks is a huge question mark. Let's start over!

  23. #39
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    My view: one in hand (Morales) is worth two in the bush (Vargas, Pinto). The truth is you can have all three, and they'll be need for each. I'd extend Morales on two notions: 1) that he can contribute 2) that he'll better optimize his trade value after this season.

    Saving cost with Vargas, leaves the Twins lots of money to spend on... evidently no one, as we should be promoting more prospects sooner.
    Last edited by PseudoSABR; 07-15-2014 at 11:12 AM.

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  25. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Rather than signing Morales (who I classify as underwhelming) why not seek a younger power hitter who is also a competent OF? Extending Willingham makes no sense. Combine the annual salaries of Morales and Willingham and the Twins can definately sign an outstanding OF! There has been way too much money spent on hole-pluggers. Use FA money for real talent and plug holes from within the franchise.
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/co...ents-for-2015/

    Who is worth 60 million and 4 years on the list, in your humble opinion as a position player is worth that kind of money?

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