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Thread: Pino Optioned

  1. #21
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Doesn't Pino have the highest or second highest K rate in the rotation? His WHIP is 1.35 which is a little high but overall he has been solid.
    He's been okay but that stat says more about the Twins rotation than it does Yohan Pino. There's Phil Hughes and then an extreme groundball guy. Those are the only two good pitchers in the rotation.

    I'm not bashing Pino, I simply don't believe he's any kind of long-term answer.

  2. #22
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Walters is on the bottom of some else's depth chart. He opposed the Red Wings recently (within the last week I think). He is with the Buffalo Bison.
    Good point. I forgot he was no longer with the team.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Good, but if a pitcher is going only 6 IP, I expect a lot more swings and misses than Pino has gotten in most starts. Wood hitting ball can work out for a few starts but overall, it will equalize back to the mean unless the swinging strike percentage goes up. He has a swinging strike percentage below Gibson but only 34% of his contact is killing worms (compared to Gibson's 54%).
    Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works :P

    All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

    The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  4. #24
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I don't understand anyone being too upset over Pino being optioned out
    I don't think anyone is really that upset. Some feel bad for the guy because it's costing him about $3K per day, but that is really just the fate of all AAAA guys.

  5. #25
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works :P

    All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

    The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.
    Not bashing the guy. As a spot starter, can't ask for much more than what he has given the Twins this season.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    He's been okay but that stat says more about the Twins rotation than it does Yohan Pino. There's Phil Hughes and then an extreme groundball guy. Those are the only two good pitchers in the rotation.

    I'm not bashing Pino, I simply don't believe he's any kind of long-term answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works :P

    All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

    The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.
    While I can appreciate what Pino has accomplished- he's very, very crafty indeed....the reality is, the margin for error for him is so small, just the slightest pin-prick is likely to break his bubble- and I have to think once game video is logged and booked on him around the league, he will be in a bit of trouble.

    As for the "strong peripheals" argument, going into last night, his LD% was over 30%, which would have been far and above the worst mark for SP in baseball. (How many "hard hit, but right at 'em" balls were there last night?) His OFB% is worse than Hughes', but without Hughes' stuff. Meanwhile, going into last night, his GB/FB, HR/9, HR/Con, HR/FB, are practically at the inverse levels of his minor league history for those same stats and scream "unsustainable" (how many fly balls that jump off the bat at Safeco soon die quietly at the warning track?)...it seems only a matter of time before the League catches up with him.

    Having said all that negative stuff, I agree, he's definitely no long-term answer, but.... he still presents some potential with his remaining options to be a nice deep depth MLB spot starter camped out at Rochester for the next couple of years until something better moves up the ladder.
    Last edited by jokin; 07-11-2014 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #27
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well
    We're just de-hyperbolizing.

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  9. #28
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    I feel like he deserved a shot at the majors, he got it, and he's done ok. Not a building block, but a useful part as long as he has options. If he were 25 I'd feel like he had more of a chance to get better, but at this point he is who he is, and I think Ryan is using him well.

    Getting Pavano for him a few years ago has to be considered a very good trade for the Twins.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I have few issues with the Twins taking flyers on guys in June or early July to see if anyone sticks a la Scott Diamond. If it continues through late July and into August, then I take issue.
    I don't mind taking flyers either, I actually enjoy seeing new guys and debuts even for non-prospects. But when there are prospects available and performing well in the high minors, I'd rather they get the first shot. (Notice I am not complaining about the position player promotions -- no prospects in sight there!)

    Diamond in 2012 didn't come up ahead of a better prospect (plus he was only 25). Neither did Albers or Walters (2012, anyway).

    But by June 2014, going into the offseason and 2015:

    +5 starts for Meyer/May >>>> +5 starts for Pino

    Hopefully VodkaDave is right and both will be up shortly, but I'm not quite seeing the point of the Pino interlude.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I don't mind taking flyers either, I actually enjoy seeing new guys and debuts even for non-prospects. But when there are prospects available and performing well in the high minors, I'd rather they get the first shot. (Notice I am not complaining about the position player promotions -- no prospects in sight there!)

    Diamond in 2012 didn't come up ahead of a better prospect (plus he was only 25). Neither did Albers or Walters (2012, anyway).

    But by June 2014, going into the offseason and 2015:

    +5 starts for Meyer/May >>>> +5 starts for Pino

    Hopefully VodkaDave is right and both will be up shortly, but I'm not quite seeing the point of the Pino interlude.
    Well, seeing the Twins let Pino pitch and Colabello hit must play quite well with all of the career AAAA players and their agents...Minnesota (by way of Rochester or New Britain) has to be the last-best-most-preferred option for the rookie graybeard set.

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Having said all that negative stuff, I agree, he's definitely no long-term answer, but.... he still presents some potential with his remaining options to be a nice deep depth MLB spot starter camped out at Rochester for the next couple of years until something better moves up the ladder.
    I don't know -- even with the options, that's a 40-man roster spot for a 30+ year old AAA/depth guy. Looking at the list of prospects that need to be protected from Rule 5 this offseason, I'm not sure Pino should make that cut unless he can offer more than that. He has been purchased or released by various organizations each of the last 4 seasons.

  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dog View Post
    Getting Pavano for him a few years ago has to be considered a very good trade for the Twins.
    Generally loved the in-season trades by Bill Smith, up until Capps, of course. Loved the aggressiveness in dealing marginal AAA guys or longer-shot low minors guys. (We should have kept Smith away from top prospects or guys on the MLB roster, though!)

  14. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by amjgt View Post
    Cost him $3000 a day (about) that he's not on the major league club.

    Sorry about that $30k, Yohan.
    I don't think that's true. Once he was promoted to the Big League club his salary should have become guaranteed for the year. I might be wrong......but I don't think I am.

  15. #34
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwainZag View Post
    I don't think that's true. Once he was promoted to the Big League club his salary should have become guaranteed for the year. I might be wrong......but I don't think I am.
    I'm pretty sure that's not true. It's a split contract that pro-rates his service time I thought. I do know that by merely making the 40 man, players get a bump in pay.

  16. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I don't know -- even with the options, that's a 40-man roster spot for a 30+ year old AAA/depth guy. Looking at the list of prospects that need to be protected from Rule 5 this offseason, I'm not sure Pino should make that cut unless he can offer more than that. He has been purchased or released by various organizations each of the last 4 seasons.
    I'm more on your side of this point, as I said, Pino has "some potential" as a spot starter until "something better moves up the ladder". I would think that there's going to be quite a bit of roster attrition that will open up the necessary spots for Meyer, Sano Rosario, etc, and probably for a few more, as well. Which is why it would be nice to have a ML look this year at Oliveros, Hamburger, Gilmartin, Achter, et al., to see how far up they ladder they really are at this point.

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  18. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's not true. It's a split contract that pro-rates his service time I thought. I do know that by merely making the 40 man, players get a bump in pay.
    Interesting. Maybe I was just thinking of the 40 man pay bump. I think I was thinking once a player made the 40 man roster he was automatically awarded the minimum salary which I believe is around 500K. I didn't know they pro-rate it at which level they are currently at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's not true. It's a split contract that pro-rates his service time I thought. I do know that by merely making the 40 man, players get a bump in pay.
    You are correct on all counts. As a AAA veteran, Pino was probably making more than most AAA guys, and he will see another bump from being on the 40-man roster. But he will only be paid the prorated MLB minimum salary for the days he is on the MLB roster.

    After just one day on the MLB roster, Pino qualified for lifetime healthcare. And with another 21 days or so, he should get a ~$34,000 annual pension. So I'd say it's been a pretty good year so far for ol' Yohan!

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  21. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    He's been okay but that stat says more about the Twins rotation than it does Yohan Pino. There's Phil Hughes and then an extreme groundball guy. Those are the only two good pitchers in the rotation.

    I'm not bashing Pino, I simply don't believe he's any kind of long-term answer.
    Yeah, Pino is what he is, a #7-8 starter who's an upgrade over Walters, Hernandez, DeVries et al. Same with Johnson, a decent #6-7 guy. Both solid pick-ups this winter.

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  23. #39
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    They get lifetime healthcare? Wow.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    They get lifetime healthcare? Wow.
    Yup! Either one day in MLB... or just move to Canada.

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