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Thread: Season Over

  1. #1
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Season Over

    As far as contending, the season is over. I think the team needs to start working on next year starting tomorrow. I understand not wanting to make a trade until after the break, but it is time to find out about as many guys as possible. I am optimistic about the future as soon as next year, but they have to start playing for next year immediately.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Yeah, I mean, I don't really care about now or 20 days from now but, yeah. I hope they listen on Dozier and Perkins too. Looks like we're starting to hear about minor league promotions - Berrios to AA already and maybe Meyer takes Nolasco's place in the rotation.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Yeah, I mean, I don't really care about now or 20 days from now but, yeah. I hope they listen on Dozier and Perkins too. Looks like we're starting to hear about minor league promotions - Berrios to AA already and maybe Meyer takes Nolasco's place in the rotation.
    I'd be fine if they dealt Perkins, but I doubt that would happen since they just locked him up. I wouldn't want them to deal Dozier though. I don't think he's peaked yet and I'm not convinced Santana/Polonco/Rosario etc. can be better than Dozier is right now. This team has so many one dimensional players that can either hit or play defense, they need to hold onto a guy that can actually do both. Dozier shouldn't be leading off. Get some good hitters around him and I think he'll be even better.

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  6. #4
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    You're too late, Stat made this proclamation 3 months ago.



    /byto humor
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Dozier is the one player who could bring back a haul of prospects from the top of a system. Perkins could also bring one good to great prospect, but would also bring the issue of a hometown talent giving a hometown discount and then being traded. Twins need to do what the Cubs just did and pull in as much talent as possible. Dozier given the club control would bring a premium.

  9. #6
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Why even talk about Dozier, Perkins or Suzuki? Ryan will not trade any of them, even though they are the most valuable assets to trade. Look at the track record. He has had numerous chances to sell high during this "rebuild" like Willingham two years ago or Perkins last year, but it wasn't even contemplated. It seems like this organization just repeatedly makes poor or wrong judgments in evaluating players or getting players ready to maximize their contributions to the club. Hardy, Nishioka, Hicks, Liriano, Florimon, Pelfrey, Correia are just some immediate examples that spring to mind.

    75 games left. If they go 35-40, they finish with 88 losses. Will that be enough to finally cause some real organizational change?

  10. #7
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Rant over.

  11. #8
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I'm all for selling, but you don't sell guys who are a part of the future or you will always be selling. Dozier wouldn't be available.

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  13. #9
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I don't see Dozier or Perkins bringing a haul at the deadline. Players with that much control time are usually better suited for an offseason trade (not saying the Twins should trade either of them, just pointing out that long-term players seem difficult to move at the deadline for fair return).

  14. #10
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Kirby_Waved_At_Me's Avatar
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    I agree that it seems most trades at the deadline are for players in the last year of their contracts. It would interest me to see some teams trying to break that tradition, though.

    I do wonder (based on that Astros leak earlier) if teams ask for too much for longer term contract players. It might make them harder to move, especially at the deadline, when teams are trying to get the guy they want before someone else does. When you're asking about several players from several teams, you probably take the best deal you think you can find as soon as you find it.

    If you're a seller, you've got time to wait for a better deal in the offseason. It's maybe similar logic to wanting relievers to start a new inning rather than come in with runners on base if possible.

  15. #11
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Why do we always talk about trading our future players like Dozier. As Terry Ryan once said, we are not a farm team for the big clubs. We are so enamored with prospects here. People complain about being competitive, but then always want to trade for more prospects. Frankly, I would rather we have the ca jones to pull off a Billy Beane trade

  16. #12
    I agree with Brock about the offseason but here is the deal. No matter what a few guys on a blog think about who to trade the decisions are made with an eye on the guys who plunk down the $$$ to get into games. I am not going to cash out my 401k and haul it all to Vegas and bet it on the Twins having 5 straight winning seasons starting in 2017 and neither is ownership or TR. By the end of next year Dozier could be as popular as Mauer among the crowd. I am sure Perk has a no trade but if he doesn't and you trade him right after he signed with a hometown discount you would have just turned this team into the Expos of old who NEVER could get anyone to sign with them.

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  18. #13
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    I am sure Perk has a no trade but if he doesn't and you trade him right after he signed with a hometown discount you would have just turned this team into the Expos of old who NEVER could get anyone to sign with them.
    Perkins has a limited no trade clause. It includes the Rays and 4 or 5 other teams.

    He is also very close to having 5 and 10 rights which would give him the opportunity to veto trades (and might be a reason to trade him now before the rights kick in).

    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...mited-no-trade

    http://puckettspond.com/2014/04/21/g...-trade-clause/

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-10-and-5-rights/


    I just am not very accepting of the argument that trading a player soon after a contract is signed will be a negative for future signings. I guess if it becomes an overall regular pattern, that could be true. I'm not sure that a case now and then really causes that.

    I don't think the Twins will trade Perkins. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't listen to offers.

  19. #14
    Senior Member MVP
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    It is a conundrum for sure. If you aren't willing to buy a team (or even a good FA every year), like the Dodgers and Yankees, how do you balance having a team people will pay to watch with the need to trade players to stock your farm system?
    Lighten up Francis....

  20. #15
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Perkins has a limited no trade clause. It includes the Rays and 4 or 5 other teams.

    He is also very close to having 5 and 10 rights which would give him the opportunity to veto trades (and might be a reason to trade him now before the rights kick in).

    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...mited-no-trade

    http://puckettspond.com/2014/04/21/g...-trade-clause/

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-10-and-5-rights/


    I just am not very accepting of the argument that trading a player soon after a contract is signed will be a negative for future signings. I guess if it becomes an overall regular pattern, that could be true. I'm not sure that a case now and then really causes that.

    I don't think the Twins will trade Perkins. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't listen to offers.
    According to Baseball Reference, Perk had only six years of service going into this year. He wouldn't get 10-5 rights until September of 2017.

  21. #16
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    According to Baseball Reference, Perk had only six years of service going into this year. He wouldn't get 10-5 rights until September of 2017.
    Oops, thanks. Should read that blurb above not just count years especially when he saw little action those first 2 or 3.

  22. #17
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    I'm all for trading veterans who have good value, but only if their replacement in the minors is ready to go.

    Pinto looks about as ready for full time major league catcher duty as Hicks does for center field.

    I'd listen on Dozier because you have guys like Polanco and Rosario that could perhaps step in and contribute.

    I know some people see a closer as a luxury for a losing team, but there is nothing more deflating than letting close games get away in the 9th. I'd keep Perkins.

    You need to start building a culture of winning at some point, and trading ALL your good players isn't gonna do it.

  23. #18
    Senior Member MVP
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    How do you propose they get more good players, if not through trading good players?

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  25. #19
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    I think Perkins is more valuable to the Twins than other teams. He is signed below market. He is from here, and an allstar caliber player. I am almost ready to give up on the season. If the Twins are going to make a move, they have to do it pretty soon. If they are not over .500 by the end of July then we are definitely out of it.

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  27. #20
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    How do you propose they get more good players, if not through trading good players?
    By doing what they are doing - drafting and developing, signing free-agents.

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