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Thread: Game Thread: Twins v Yankees, 7/6 @ 1:10pm CT

  1. #121
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    If this were based on the subject of original music, writing or art, I would totally agree with you on this one Chi - mimicking the work of others is sacrilegious... in the arts.
    I think any approach is going to be a blend of techniques and approaches that work elsewhere ... I just don't think you can copy any one organization.

    I, too, admire the Cardinals but I don't think you could wholesale take their approach and have it work in Minnesota. Every organization has different strengths and weaknesses and each really needs to chart its own course.

    In honesty, although Jim Pohlad's money would be fun to have, I don't envy him this decision. I've no doubt that most of the Twins employees are loyal and hard-working and from the sounds of it, they like and respect each other. Effectuating a major overhaul would result in a lot of displacement.

    Are the Twins' financial returns are getting to a point where an overhaul is necessary? Given baseball's overall financial structure, I'm not sure finances ever dictate a change. It really comes down to the owner's outlook on what he/she wants out of the team.

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  3. #122
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    He should be in AAA honing this skill.
    Instead of with the Twins honing his ability to strike out on pitches that are in the dirt?

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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    If you could be the owner of the Twins for one day, and could fire the GM, would you do it? If so, who would you try to hire as the new GM?
    I'd thank him for his time and ask him to politely step down. I'm not sure who should replace him, but someone outside the organization.

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  7. #124
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Plouffe!!!

    / in retrospect, giving up 6 runs in the first 2 innings was not such a good idea after all

  8. #125
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    It's also possible to find a young and dynamic candidate stuck in an organization that fails to impress. That might be more interesting to me than taking someone steeped in a tradition that already is fully exploited.
    In all reality. I don't think what anyone proposed was wrong from Glunn's original post. We all have our own ideas about things and how they should work.

    From my viewpoint, I am not sure over exploitation of another team's philosophy really matters in today's game.

    Trust me on this - I like originality, new angles, and creations as much or more so than the next guy. This is only how I view baseball at this time.

  9. #126
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    If this were based on the subject of original music, writing or art, I would totally agree with you on this one Chi - mimicking the work of others is sacrilegious... in the arts.

    With baseball, I don't necessarily think originality is necessary, especially with the direction this game is moving in. In a baseball situation, I think copying some philosophies of other teams is a good thing, you can pick and choose from the philosophies as you please. I also do not think that being a baseball GM comes without the chance to be creative or having an outside the box approach.

    In my opinion the Cardinals run their ship the right way. They are built for success now, and for the future. By whatever means they analyze and scout the players they draft or sign. It is working, and working well. I would target their personnel department for GM change.

    As for Billy Beane's Athletics, they have mortgaged their future for the present, and they have been pretty crafty in doing so. They have gotten a bit lucky - at least a little bit. If they win a World Series this year or next, it will most probably been worth it and Billy Beane will be hailed as a genious. In two years time they will be cellar dwellers.
    Again ... I will disagree, on both the art and baseball fronts. I don't mind someone taking another's song and making it their own by infusing their own style and translation into it. It becomes a different song then and sometimes even better. After all, how many covers did the Beatles make in their first album? And were still successful because they brought their own brand to it? And I have several different versions of the same song all done uniquely. But bands who recreate the exact sound and style? That I find awful. But throughout history music and art have always 'borrowed.' What makes it unique is what they do with it, what they add to it, how they twist it.

    I don't mind bringing in someone from outside with different ideas and creating a 'new' Twins team, FO to the field. But I think it's dangerous to look elsewhere and say 'Make us like that' because they have success in their model. They have success in their model because they created their model and I'm not sure that always translates. Yes, we need new approaches and new directions, and someone new should provide that by bringing what they know from elsewhere and successfully incorporating and tweaking it to work for us. But someone who is smart will also keep what's good while changing what is not. That's what I'm suggesting. It's a 'red flag' to me when people start suggesting we should be like 'them' because we aren't them.

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  11. #127
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    Is Minneapolis an expensive place to live?
    I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

  12. #128
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I think any approach is going to be a blend of techniques and approaches that work elsewhere ... I just don't think you can copy any one organization.

    I, too, admire the Cardinals but I don't think you could wholesale take their approach and have it work in Minnesota. Every organization has different strengths and weaknesses and each really needs to chart its own course.

    In honesty, although Jim Pohlad's money would be fun to have, I don't envy him this decision. I've no doubt that most of the Twins employees are loyal and hard-working and from the sounds of it, they like and respect each other. Effectuating a major overhaul would result in a lot of displacement.

    Are the Twins' financial returns are getting to a point where an overhaul is necessary? Given baseball's overall financial structure, I'm not sure finances ever dictate a change. It really comes down to the owner's outlook on what he/she wants out of the team.
    I suspect that the Twins are sill making a nice profit, but they could be making a lot more if they could become more competitive.

    I don't know where the weaknesses exist and what other teams do differently to have greater success. My sense is that the Twins could do a better job with scouting, drafting and developing pitchers. It also seems to me that some other teams do a better job getting the most out of toolsy players who are immature, like Carlos Gomez and Aaron Hicks. If I were the GM, I would try a system of "mentors" for such players. For example, I would ask Mauer or Willingham if he would be willing to mentor Hicks in terms of playing the game the "right way".

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  14. #129
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I think any approach is going to be a blend of techniques and approaches that work elsewhere ... I just don't think you can copy any one organization.

    I, too, admire the Cardinals but I don't think you could wholesale take their approach and have it work in Minnesota. Every organization has different strengths and weaknesses and each really needs to chart its own course.

    In honesty, although Jim Pohlad's money would be fun to have, I don't envy him this decision. I've no doubt that most of the Twins employees are loyal and hard-working and from the sounds of it, they like and respect each other. Effectuating a major overhaul would result in a lot of displacement.

    Are the Twins' financial returns are getting to a point where an overhaul is necessary? Given baseball's overall financial structure, I'm not sure finances ever dictate a change. It really comes down to the owner's outlook on what he/she wants out of the team.
    Okay ... this ... you said it better than I did.

  15. #130
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    Is Minneapolis an expensive place to live?
    Depends on where and how you want to live, as is with any city. Quite frankly, if I wanted to buy a similar condo in Mpls that I have in Chicago, in the same 'right' location I have here, I'd probably have to pay as much.

  16. #131
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Again ... I will disagree, on both the art and baseball fronts. I don't mind someone taking another's song and making it their own by infusing their own style and translation into it. It becomes a different song then and sometimes even better. After all, how many covers did the Beatles make in their first album? And were still successful because they brought their own brand to it? And I have several different versions of the same song all done uniquely. But bands who recreate the exact sound and style? That I find awful. But throughout history music and art have always 'borrowed.' What makes it unique is what they do with it, what they add to it, how they twist it.

    I don't mind bringing in someone from outside with different ideas and creating a 'new' Twins team, FO to the field. But I think it's dangerous to look elsewhere and say 'Make us like that' because they have success in their model. They have success in their model because they created their model and I'm not sure that always translates. Yes, we need new approaches and new directions, and someone new should provide that by bringing what they know from elsewhere and successfully incorporating and tweaking it to work for us. But someone who is smart will also keep what's good while changing what is not. That's what I'm suggesting. It's a 'red flag' to me when people start suggesting we should be like 'them' because we aren't them.
    After Henry Ford invented the assembly line, wouldn't it make sense for the President of General Motors to hire one of Ford's top executives to put together a similar system? That does not mean that the system could not be improved, by someone who is also creative, but it seems to me that the Twins need a vastly different paradigm.

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  18. #132
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    My sense is that the Twins could do a better job with scouting, drafting and developing pitchers. It also seems to me that some other teams do a better job getting the most out of toolsy players who are immature, like Carlos Gomez and Aaron Hicks. If I were the GM, I would try a system of "mentors" for such players. For example, I would ask Mauer or Willingham if he would be willing to mentor Hicks in terms of playing the game the "right way".
    And that's where I think a fresh perspective really comes into play. Identifying those opportunities for improvement.

    I just think when you've developed the system and grown with it for 25 years, it's hard to have that objective eye. I know that the Twins supposedly made some system-wide changes at the time of TK's retirement but even that has been more than a decade ago.

    And when all you do is promote from within, you never have someone with "clout" who comes in with that fresh eye.

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  20. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Depends on where and how you want to live, as is with any city. Quite frankly, if I wanted to buy a similar condo in Mpls that I have in Chicago, in the same 'right' location I have here, I'd probably have to pay as much.
    Let's say I'm right out of college and I'm looking for a place that is decent in appearance and not in a terrible location. Could I afford it? I know I could in Des Moines.
    I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

  21. #134
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    Tying run on deck. Really.
    Chris Hermann solves everything. hat tip to jokin

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  23. #135
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Last ditch effort.
    Rally Rhino (Yanks).jpg

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  25. #136
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    Tying run at the plate. Really.
    Chris Hermann solves everything. hat tip to jokin

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  27. #137
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    In honesty, I can't believe how many of us have stuck around for this game.

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  29. #138
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    Let's say I'm right out of college and I'm looking for a place that is decent in appearance and not in a terrible location. Could I afford it? I know I could in Des Moines.
    Well, I haven't lived in the TC in 17 yrs ... so I'm not sure. But when I first lived there, my money went a lot further when I had roommates. And I didn't make a lot of money.

  30. #139
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Arcia needs another HBP here.
    Again, my ideal approach for him.

  31. #140
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Lesson to self: Make sure to close the dog's treat cupboard firmly.

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