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Thread: Article: Jared Burton, the case for dismissal.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I don't like asset management that simply cuts players loose when at their low point, if it can be helped.
    Well then, you obviously don't mind a lot of "asset indigestion", something the Twins seem to specialize in.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I don't like asset management that simply cuts players loose when at their low point, if it can be helped.
    So when should you cut a player? After he's proven that he's slightly better than his worst outing and you've seemingly wasted another 10-20 innings on him out of the pen?

    I'm sure I'm just wasting my breath, and all of our time lamenting Jared Burton's continued existence on the roster, but it just boggles my mind that he keeps getting opportunities to pitch for Minnesota when there are guys in Rochester who should have already replaced him on the roster.

    He hasn't given up a run in 9 of his previous 11 outings, but one of those was against Toronto with a 6 run lead when he couldn't even get out of the inning before Gardy had to give him the hook to protect their lead. That guy can and WILL show up on the mound again and again if the Twins keep running him out there. The question is will it be with a 6-run lead next time, or will it be in the 8th of a tie ball game and cost the Twins a win?

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pleiss View Post
    So when should you cut a player? After he's proven that he's slightly better than his worst outing and you've seemingly wasted another 10-20 innings on him out of the pen?

    I'm sure I'm just wasting my breath, and all of our time lamenting Jared Burton's continued existence on the roster, but it just boggles my mind that he keeps getting opportunities to pitch for Minnesota when there are guys in Rochester who should have already replaced him on the roster.

    He hasn't given up a run in 9 of his previous 11 outings, but one of those was against Toronto with a 6 run lead when he couldn't even get out of the inning before Gardy had to give him the hook to protect their lead. That guy can and WILL show up on the mound again and again if the Twins keep running him out there. The question is will it be with a 6-run lead next time, or will it be in the 8th of a tie ball game and cost the Twins a win?
    I defended the Matt Guerrier signing from the start of ST, in the face of the typical criticism about putting the band back together. I was pretty insistent that the Twins, if Guerrier proved healthy, surely had Matty-G in mind to replacing Burton at some point- but a point sooner rather than later. I was proven wrong and I'm stumped that the Twins have chosen to retain both of them together for this long. As I've been pointing out recently, and I'll keep firing away for effect-

    The MN Twins have NINE pitchers over 30 on their 25-man roster...

    The NY Yankees have THREE pitchers over 30 on their 25-man roster...
    Last edited by jokin; 06-22-2014 at 09:28 PM.

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  6. #24
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    Hey give me credit. I visualized it on MLB Game Day in the 9th. I did not need another hole in my wall.

    I saved some money.
    We had a perfectly round little divot, the size of our younger son's elbow, in our living room drywall for several years, from when Bret Favre threw that interception in the 4th quarter of the Vikings playoff game. He leaped from the couch, flung his arms a certain way, and ... oops, this isn't a game thread.

    As for Burton, I don't care. Cut him if you want to. He's not important.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 06-22-2014 at 09:25 PM.

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  8. #25
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    So many pieces in the bullpen to choose from this seasonBurton, Guerrier, Swarzak, Tonkin when he was up. A case could be made for moving on from any of these pitchers from the bullpen. Long term, the rest of the bullpen does't exactly strike fear in anyone either. That is the real problem here. Achter, Ibarra, Oliveros may be upgrades. Wouldn't hurt to have a look at them now rather than September. So many different players to complain about, so many to meet the same fate.

  9. #26
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    The grass is always greener, isn't it?

    We don't know if Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin ,etc are better than Burton, who has been pretty solid most of his outings. He's had two 2-4 game rough patches, but other than that, just fine. An outing like today's (and most of his last 3-4) have been pretty strong.

    As I say often... I'm as big a prospect guys as there is, but guys with track record are important. In fact, I hope some day that Tonkin can be as good as Burton has been.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    The grass is always greener, isn't it?
    We don't know if Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin ,etc are better than Burton, who has been pretty solid most of his outings. He's had two 2-4 game rough patches, but other than that, just fine. An outing like today's (and most of his last 3-4) have been pretty strong.
    We don't know if they'll be better, but I think at this point it's time to find out. This team needs to be building for the future, not meddling with used to bes. Burton has been better lately, but I don't think his recent outings are any more important in predicting his future than the dozen or so before that or even his early season failure. He's a 4ish ERA guy at best this season, and I don't think that guy, proven track record or not, should be taking a roster spot on a team that needs to be looking forward to success, not trying to recapture lightening in a bottle from 2012.

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  13. #28
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Don't you think they should be a little more out of any playoff race before throwing in the towel?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Don't you think they should be a little more out of any playoff race before throwing in the towel?
    Yes. Don't throw in the towel when the team is only a few games out of contention, but I don't think swapping Burton for someone from the AAA pen, or even Pino and recalling a starter from AAA makes the team worse. I wouldn't consider that throwing in the towel. I feel it would be an improvement from the current roster construction.

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  16. #31
    Mostly I just can't stand Jared Burton.
    Really, that hasn't come out in this thread at all.

    Burton isn't a great arm but I would bet $$$$$ that if he was DFA'd and made it far enough the Tigers would have him in a heartbeat. Probally the same with Matty G.

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  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    The grass is always greener, isn't it?

    We don't know if Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin ,etc are better than Burton, who has been pretty solid most of his outings. He's had two 2-4 game rough patches, but other than that, just fine. An outing like today's (and most of his last 3-4) have been pretty strong.

    As I say often... I'm as big a prospect guys as there is, but guys with track record are important. In fact, I hope some day that Tonkin can be as good as Burton has been.
    We have no idea, and Tonkin certainly hasn't given me any reason to believe in limited innings. It feels like the AAA pitchers are like a back up QB for the Vikings, everyone loves them now, but will they when they are in the Bigs?

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  20. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pleiss View Post
    Mostly I just can't stand Jared Burton.
    Emotion overides analysis?

  21. #34
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    I went to the game yesterday with some friends and there were several shocking moments - Mauer ripped a first pitch into center for an RBI single in his 2nd AB; Hughes WALKED A GUY; Arcia didn't swing at a breaking ball (then swung horribly at the next pitch); Mauer again was aggressive early in the count, tied the game with another RBI single, took second base and then popped up out of his slide and clapped his hands together as if his circuits had registered real emotion . . . then Jared Burton came in to pitch the ninth.

    Well, of course we all were aghast at the prospect of Burton coming in to pitch the ninth - "we're only up by one, bringing Burton is like bringing in the go-ahead run to pitch!" etc etc.
    Then he proceeds to strike the first two guys out convincingly, then get a weak excuse me grounder to end the game.

    Gardy loves to reward players when they play well. I'm sure that if Fien had not given up those two solo shots in Boston, it would have been Burton in the eighth and Fien in the ninth yesterday. Each successful outing for a reliever gives Gardy confidence. He'll keep putting Burton out there in high leverage situations until Burton shows that he can't hack it. Ride the hot streak until it burns up. That seems to be how the manager sees it.

  22. #35
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    Having just turned 30 and having just read the comments in this thread (among others), I have to ask: Am I about to fall off a cliff? Is my life over as I know it?

  23. #36
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    Veterans>>>>>>>>>>>players actually drafted and developed by the Twins. That's how it looks from where I sit, when it comes to relievers. Which is weird. If there is one place you can save money, it is the back of the bullpen. If there is one place you can have 3-5 guys bounce back and forth between AAA and MLB, it is the bullpen. But that does not seem to be their strategy for some time now. I'd say it is bad asset allocation, and bad roster management. One of the beauties of using AAA/MLB pipeline is your abiliy to manage the 25 man roster better. This team does not seem to value that part....
    Lighten up Francis....

  24. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    Having just turned 30 and having just read the comments in this thread (among others), I have to ask: Am I about to fall off a cliff? Is my life over as I know it?
    Are you a professional athlete, with years of statistical evidence showing a very likely large decline in your performance?
    Lighten up Francis....

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  26. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Are you a professional athlete, with years of statistical evidence showing a very likely large decline in your performance?
    Nah, my evidence is all anecdotal

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  28. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    Really, that hasn't come out in this thread at all.

    Burton isn't a great arm but I would bet $$$$$ that if he was DFA'd and made it far enough the Tigers would have him in a heartbeat. Probally the same with Matty G.
    We should trade him to Detroit. I hear they have this Cabrera guy that's OK. He'd probably help our team out.
    I bent my wookie...

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  30. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Emotion overides analysis?
    Concerning Jared Burton, my emotion is fueled by analysis. I don't like him based on the eye test, and I can't stand him looking at the numbers.

    Jared "Just Bombs" Burton has got to go. Final answer.

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