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Thread: Scrap Iron Suzuki: "I'm a suggestion box with strong suggestions"

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    in 4-5 weeks Zuke's trade value should increase substantially, provided he stays healthy. I'd listen to any trade offer that improves the team over the next 2-3 years
    I'd argue that signing Suzuki to a two year extension would improve the team significantly more over the next 2-3 years then anyone they would get back in a trade.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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  3. #22
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    In re: to Suzuki's bat, I get that he is getting lucky, but he is making some real nice contact, while I don't think a 124 OPS+ is exactly sustainable for him, I do believe he has turned some sort of corner at the plate though and found his stroke (or maybe even better) then he had early in his career, his 15 doubles so far already equals his 2013 mark, and is going to smash his 20 in 2012. Before then he was a guy who would give you close to a mid 90's OPS+ which is actually just fine for a starting catcher.

    Yeah, yeah I get that BABIP is luck driven for him at times, but as the old saying should go: Doubles never lie.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    In re: to Suzuki's bat, I get that he is getting lucky, but he is making some real nice contact, while I don't think a 124 OPS+ is exactly sustainable for him, I do believe he has turned some sort of corner at the plate though and found his stroke (or maybe even better) then he had early in his career, his 15 doubles so far already equals his 2013 mark, and is going to smash his 20 in 2012. Before then he was a guy who would give you close to a mid 90's OPS+ which is actually just fine for a starting catcher.

    Yeah, yeah I get that BABIP is luck driven for him at times, but as the old saying should go: Doubles never lie.
    Some were questioning if Suzuki was through playing full-time after 2013. He had tapped himself out at his 6th year arb-contract high- $6.45M. It turns out Billy Beane knew what he was doing in letting Zuke get away:

    The A's might be the first team in history to productively carry three catchers: Derek Norris (.914 OPS), Stephen Vogt (.883) and John Jaso (.817) are mashing, and manager Bob Melvin has frequently started all three in the same lineup (with Jaso at DH and Vogt in the outfield). -- Jason Wojciechowski
    Obviously, the A's are defying the odds and are getting great years from all three catchers, after acquiring Jaso in a 3-way deal in January. Together, the 3-headed catcher alignment makes only $3.3M combined. Classic Billy Beane moneyball.

    But that doesn't mean that Terry Ryan got fleeced. Ryan got Suzuki on a bargain-basement price, and the gamble clearly has paid off for both parties, Suzuki won too, by betting that he could clearly beat out Pinto for the full-time gig- thus enhancing his chances for another decent contract after 2014. I gotta think there's still a chance to deal Suzuki for a decent young prospect (think a High-A version or better of Butera for Sulbaran) by the deadline, and then they still can take a good shot at re-signing him in the offseason. The guy has got "leader" and "future coach or manager" written all over him.

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  6. #24
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    Many posys out there about the genius of Billy Beane. He employs 3 catchers. Gardy has 3 and he is an idiot.

    Ryan will trafe anyone on this team if the return is good. He traded Aggie then resigned him.

  7. #25
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Many posys out there about the genius of Billy Beane. He employs 3 catchers. Gardy has 3 and he is an idiot.
    Minus, you know, the parts about the catchers actually being good, and actually playing at the same time. Other than that, a perfectly viable comparison.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Minus, you know, the parts about the catchers actually being good, and actually playing at the same time. Other than that, a perfectly viable comparison.
    The grief on these pages has been about Gardenhire wanting three catchers, not the quality of players that happened to play catcher. Sorry you missed the posts complaining about that. There is a little bit of a difference there.

    Voight has been used 17 of 72 games so far this season.55 PA This far into the season credit goes to the manager for putting him in situations where he can play well and not expose what he doesn't do well and thus have people think he is really good. Also have people think he plays alot. On the other hand there were complaints that with Gardenhire having a couple players not in games that he was playing with a short bench. Getting into 1 in 5 games is not extensive use.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    The grief on these pages has been about Gardenhire wanting three catchers, not the quality of players that happened to play catcher. Sorry you missed the posts complaining about that. There is a little bit of a difference there.

    Voight has been used 17 of 72 games so far this season.55 PA This far into the season credit goes to the manager for putting him in situations where he can play well and not expose what he doesn't do well and thus have people think he is really good. Also have people think he plays alot. On the other hand there were complaints that with Gardenhire having a couple players not in games that he was playing with a short bench. Getting into 1 in 5 games is not extensive use.
    You must have missed the part where Vogt was only called up on June 1st and has been in all but three games since then. Having 3 catchers that are OPSing over .800 is not the same as employing the likes of Butera and Herrmann.
    Chris Hermann solves everything. hat tip to jokin

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  12. #28
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    The grief on these pages has been about Gardenhire wanting three catchers, not the quality of players that happened to play catcher. Sorry you missed the posts complaining about that. There is a little bit of a difference there.

    Voight has been used 17 of 72 games so far this season.55 PA This far into the season credit goes to the manager for putting him in situations where he can play well and not expose what he doesn't do well and thus have people think he is really good. Also have people think he plays alot. On the other hand there were complaints that with Gardenhire having a couple players not in games that he was playing with a short bench. Getting into 1 in 5 games is not extensive use.
    Boy if I was going to go on a "defend Gardy about three catchers" campaign I'd at least try to have my facts straight first. Yeesh.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    The grief on these pages has been about Gardenhire wanting three catchers, not the quality of players that happened to play catcher. Sorry you missed the posts complaining about that. There is a little bit of a difference there.
    Not to pile on after GCTF but...

    Just because forum posts don't give full context for every comment does NOT mean the context doesn't exist. I would be surprised if anyone would object to the Twins rostering three catchers who can both hit and get regular playing time (or even two catchers who meet that criteria, plus a third for strictly backup C duty, like the late 2009 Twins with Mauer, Jose Morales, and Mike Redmond).

    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Voight has been used 17 of 72 games so far this season.55 PA This far into the season credit goes to the manager for putting him in situations where he can play well and not expose what he doesn't do well and thus have people think he is really good. Also have people think he plays alot. On the other hand there were complaints that with Gardenhire having a couple players not in games that he was playing with a short bench. Getting into 1 in 5 games is not extensive use.
    I will echo the sentiment about checking basic facts before posting. Vogt was only recalled on June 1st. Since then, all three catchers have been playing regularly, to the tune of 370-480 PA full season paces. During that time, Vogt has been their primary RF and Jaso their primary DH.

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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    I'm finding it kind of weird that, now that Mauer isn't the catcher, Gardy has no problem letting his #1 catcher catch a day game after a night game.

    I wonder if either Mauer was asking for more rest from catching, or if the Twins FO was pressuring Gardy to take it easy on Mauer because they had so much money invested in him.
    Interesting observation.

  17. #31
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarheeltwinsfan View Post
    Interesting observation.
    I don't think it was Mauer asking for the rest IIRC he said he wanted to catch every day. It was probably them protecting a long term asset..which is smart. It's great that Kurt is being an iron man at this point, but it likely isn't sustainable long term, eventually the wear and tear will effect anyone. Ideally Pinto is back up at that point and sitting Suzuki more often won't hurt the team.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  18. #32
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I'd argue that signing Suzuki to a two year extension would improve the team significantly more over the next 2-3 years then anyone they would get back in a trade.
    I agree - perhaps by the end of that extension, Pinto will be the catcher we all hoped he would become.

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  20. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I don't think it was Mauer asking for the rest IIRC he said he wanted to catch every day. It was probably them protecting a long term asset..which is smart. It's great that Kurt is being an iron man at this point, but it likely isn't sustainable long term, eventually the wear and tear will effect anyone. Ideally Pinto is back up at that point and sitting Suzuki more often won't hurt the team.
    Yup, although there are conflicting news reports about Mauer- and his willingness in the past to play when at less than 100%. And by definition, the Twins don't have anything invested long-term in a one-year contract guy like Suzuki. Suzuki and the Twins both win on this type of deal, the Twins for the obvious reasons as previously noted, and for Zuke, he wants the every-day opportunity, and gets to prove to all comers in the offseason that he is healthy enough to be a productive asset as someone's potential full-time catcher.

  21. #34
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    Saint Beane is not perfect. Look at how well Suzuki is playing. Beane let him go for nothing. That is mot his MO.

  22. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Saint Beane is not perfect. Look at how well Suzuki is playing. Beane let him go for nothing. That is mot his MO.
    You are crushing that strawman. It's really an impressive effort.

  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    You are crushing that strawman. It's really an impressive effort.
    Try having a sense of humour if possible. God ,I thought I made a prepousterous enough statment that it couldn't be missed for the inent.

  24. #37
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Kirby_Waved_At_Me's Avatar
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    Need a Sarcasm emoticon :?

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