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Thread: International Watch: Huascar Ynoa

  1. #21
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    International signings are a chance to go balls out and spend some money - I don't have any complaints with the Twins' results lately, but if a prize offers itself, spend spend spend.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    That's a fair assessment, but there's not a guarantee that they will get 1/3 of the talent. Also, higher revenue teams could trade off years, but it's not like they are scheming with each other to keep the lower revenue teams down. The truth is every team in baseball probably has enough money to do the same thing if they wanted to. I'm not saying it's a great system, or that I even like it, but I don't think it is cheating. The teams are following the rules as written, it's just there were some unintended consequences associated with that rule.
    I agree they aren't scheming to keep the other teams down but in the end that is the likely consequence. We know for a fact that many lower revenue clubs do not have the financial resources that that the top clubs enjoy. The Royals, Rays, Marlins etc will have to turn over there talent after 6 years if not before because they cannot afford star players. If you want to keep the fans of low revenue teams interested then you have to create a way to give them an advantage otherwise the team would likely get contracted. Baseball seems to agree with trying to give the worst teams the greatest advantage to grab the highest talent to get back on track. When teams circumvent that with money then it doesn't work.

    Look at it like this. How would you like it if the Yankee's got to pick first in the draft every year? When they have more cash to spend than every other team that is effectively what happens. Revenue can be an unfair advantage.

    Cheating to me equals creating an unfair advantage (i.e. Money\revenue) or not following the rules.

  3. #23
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    Here's MLB.Com's list of teams leading for the top 30 prospects by team and ranking:

    Yankees: 1,2,5,7,9,13,14,16,18,25,29
    Rays: 3
    Brewers: 4
    Red Sox: 6,10
    Mariners, 8
    Blue Jays: 11
    Rockies: 12,22
    Phillies: 15
    Twins: 17
    Tigers: 19
    Astros: 20,21,23
    Royals: 24
    White Sox: 26,28
    Mets: 27
    Padres: 30

    Just a bit uneven. If Yankees sign 1/2 of those guys, they should be banned from signing any more for 10 years. I don't know what the penalty is for going over allotment, but it's not enough.

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  5. #24
    I am a bit skeptical about the report of the Twins not signing anyone over a million. They have a rather large bonus pool so it would be difficult to spread that over many smaller signings, though not a bad strategy, unless they plan to trade some it. I imagine if there is a player they like, they would spend what is necessary, within reason as they have always been somewhat risk averse. Also, Doogie has whiffed on the Twins in the past when he reported they weren't likely to make any major moves the day before the biggest free agent signing in team history. I am hoping this is a long the same lines as Ynoa sounds intriguing even if 16 yo pitchers are tough to project.

    As for the Yankees and other big market teams spending on IFA, I don't like it but it's within the rules and guessing the other owners are just fine collecting the checks on the tax overages. Not that the fans should care. Guessing it won't change until there is a draft.

  6. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    The draft is an awful thing......there should, imo, be some hybrid draft/FA thing, imo. All the draft does is lower the income of these players (from the player side).
    Well... I think doing some research in the ages before the draft, will convince you that the draft is likely the best thing to happen to equalize competition. Seriously.
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  7. #26
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    I expect that the Yankees will end up throwing most of their money away if they out bid everybody for a bunch of the so called top thirty. We are talking about largely 16 year old kids. With rare exceptions, most of these top thirty won't amount to much. The odds are about as good to just sign a number of the next 50 for more reasonable money. That is largely what the Twins do every year, which is has yielded the Twins prospects like Arcia and Pinto.

    There are a few guys who really stand out at a young age, like Sano did. But most of the time there is a lot of projecting on these young guys. Which is a polite way of saying guessing. The Twins have a number of interesting international pitchers in their farm system right now. Very few of them received even modestly large bonuses. I expect that one or more of them (Thorpe, Romero and others) has about as good chance of becoming an ace as any of the guys in that year's "class" that received much larger bonuses.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Nygaard View Post
    I wouldn't get my hopes up too much because it doesn't jive with what Doogie reported earlier (that the team wouldn't sign anyone for more than $1 million):
    That approach and mindset is sooooooo flawed and makes me so angry I can't even believe I'm a fan of this organization sometimes. Do the Twins realize that when they make a splash with one player he turned out to be one of the best minor league prospects they have ever had??? Seriously, they paid 3.15 million (way more than the measly 1 they won't go over) and have a previously ranked #2 in minor league baseball. Everyone is not Sano, but obviously the approach works when the player deserves it. Sure, spread the money around and buy more lottery tickets, but when the odds go up, go all in. Please...

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    It is not breaking the rule as written but there is a thing humans are supposed to have or at least try and develop and those things are called morals. How do we know the Cubs\Yankees are cheating? Well the intention of the rule was to help teams with low revenues who typically aren't that good get better by having a shot to sign some of the top talent to get better.
    Well let me bring back the basketball analogy. James Naismith created a non-contact game. The players were not supposed to foul each other. Yet they still do, and often intentionally. Is that cheating?

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Well let me bring back the basketball analogy. James Naismith created a non-contact game. The players were not supposed to foul each other. Yet they still do, and often intentionally. Is that cheating?
    If it is deemed an intentional foul it is. I believe you can be kicked off the court after two technical fouls. Also FYI Basketball has a cap.

  11. #30
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    I hate to derail this thread by... talking about the subject, but I would love to see Bert attempt to pronounce Huascar Ynoa.

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  13. #31
    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benji21 View Post
    That approach and mindset is sooooooo flawed and makes me so angry I can't even believe I'm a fan of this organization sometimes. Do the Twins realize that when they make a splash with one player he turned out to be one of the best minor league prospects they have ever had??? Seriously, they paid 3.15 million (way more than the measly 1 they won't go over) and have a previously ranked #2 in minor league baseball. Everyone is not Sano, but obviously the approach works when the player deserves it. Sure, spread the money around and buy more lottery tickets, but when the odds go up, go all in. Please...
    Not really sure that's their "approach". I think they probably haven't evaluated anyone that's worth more than a million that isn't already committed to someone. Even Ynoa isn't guaranteed to get more than a million based on his inconsistencies.

  14. #32
    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    This was the Doogie tidbit that I referenced:
    @DarrenWolfson: Spoke w/ #MNTwins VP M. Radcliff from Rochester. On July 2 Int'l FA: "Have a lot of guys we're in good shape on." Won't top $1M bonus. Rare.

  15. #33
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    I would propose a hybrid international draft, based on the Rule 4 draft. I would set up a 15 round draft using the draft order for Rule 4. I wouldn't use slot amounts, but amounts equal to the total similar to amounts for the Rule 4 draft.

    The difference would be that up to 5 teams could draft an individual allowing the international free agents to negotiate a contract with one of the 5 teams who drafted him. Then it would be impossible for a team like the Yankees to bid on 11 of the top 30 prospects. I would also allow teams to trade these picks for major or minor league players.

    I would consider allowing teams who didn't spend their entire allotment, to carry the unspent amount forward for up to three years. If unspent after 3 years, they would lose the money. (unlikely to happen as it would be the first amount spent the next year). It would allow you to follow a player when they were 14, trade up to acquire an earlier choice, and spend extra money to acquire them when they are of age.

    Just another option to the one that mike presented earlier.

  16. #34
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Here's what some of the penalties are:

    "There are penalties in place for teams exceeding their spending limits.
    Teams that exceed the pools by 0 to 5 percent have to pay 100 percent tax, and teams that exceed the pools by 5 to 10 percent are not allowed to sign a player for more than $500,000 during the next signing period and also have to pay a 100-percent tax on the pool overage. Teams that exceed the pools by 10 to 15 percent are not allowed to sign a player for more than $300,000 during the next signing period and have to pay a 100-percent tax on the pool overage.


    In the most severe penalty, teams that exceed the pool by 15 percent or more are not allowed to sign a player for more than $300,000 during the next two signing periods in addition to paying a 100-percent tax on the pool overage."

    Last year the Cubs went Hog wild signing IFA's.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...rres-jed-hoyer

    According to that article, they spent about $8M (guessing not exempt, as contracts $50K or lower are exempt as I understand it).

    So they're pretty much out of this year (2014) and next year having exceeded that 15% - unless they were able to trade for more pool money.

    So...the Yankees could go hog wild this year...and just handcuff themselves for 2015 and 2016. Sorta, they can still sign players for up to $300K bonus. So the strategy, sorta go heavy one year, then just miss out the following 2 years. Thus it's strategy in a way...not cheating. Just have to believe the scouts in saying the following 2 years aren't as worthwhile. Or can find a few guys for under $300K (max per signee) and not go over their pool.

    Be nice if the Twins could go for one or two of those top prospects...and well, just play out their allotted bonus pool. Play all the lottery tickets they can so to speak.



    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/...nt_id=80379210

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