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Thread: Yohan Pino to start Thursday / Deduno moved to pen

  1. #121
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    In fairness JB wasn't really contruing Gardenhire correctly. Gardy's main point was that Pino had a good ERA in AAA and that his personal qualities offset the stuff concerns.

    Which of course isn't much better, since Pino's ERA isn't reflective of his performance, as has been exhaustively established.

  2. #122
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    In fairness JB wasn't really contruing Gardenhire correctly. Gardy's main point was that Pino had a good ERA in AAA and that his personal qualities offset the stuff concerns.

    Which of course isn't much better, since Pino's ERA isn't reflective of his performance, as has been exhaustively established.
    Actually it hasn't been exhaustively established, his k/bb rate is very good which is reflective of his performance, his FIP while higher isn't exactly in the "danger" zone, and as I have been saying results are ultimately what matter. If he comes up to the majors and produces then great, if he doesn't then you bring someone else in who might as well. He has more then earned his shot due to his results.

    Should the Twins give back their 1991 World Series rings because Erickson, Tapani, Morris, Aggie, Anderson all outperformed there FIP's and several players including Tappani, Erickson, Mack etc had career years?
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Leave it up to Ronnie. Hard work over a predictor of future success. We are in good hands guys. Pino is going to "battle his tail off", I can just tell.

    In Gardy's defense, Rudy did get a sack on that one play.
    Too funny....

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Actually it hasn't been exhaustively established, his k/bb rate is very good which is reflective of his performance, his FIP while higher isn't exactly in the "danger" zone, and as I have been saying results are ultimately what matter.

    If he comes up to the majors and produces then great, if he doesn't then you bring someone else in who might as well. He has more then earned his shot due to his results.
    If Pino doesn't work out, perhaps we can coax DeVries out of retirement?

  5. #125
    Has anyone started the "Drunk on Pino" fan club yet? I think we need to see a banner if his first start is intoxicating.

  6. #126
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    There is an important distinction here: not all comments are statements of opinion.

    It is a fact that, in a small sample, defense-independent metrics are superior to ERA. It has been studied and proven statistically. It does not involve my "view" or "opinion." Likewise, it is a fact that high strand rates are not sustainable. My personal views have nothing to do with it at all.

    Indeed, I'm not convinced posters should be allowed to argue otherwise. If something is indisputable - meaning if it is equally certain to 2 + 2 =4 - then arguing against it seems like trolling.
    I don't think the mods are here to tell you what you can and cannot argue. I really don't care if you think FIP is the worlds greatest stat or you prefer ERA, fWAR, bWAR, or some other alphabet soup. Telling people what they are allowed to think and are not allowed to think is a pretty dangerous precendent for anyone to set.

    We are saying that discussion needs to be respectuful, and that is not happening in this thread.

    I think I can safely speak for Chitown when I say that when you speak in absolutes (especially when it's very clear that others around you don't share those same absolutes), that you aren't arguing 2+2=4. It may seem that way to you, but there are a lot of very intelligent people here who clearly disagree. Regardless of how dumb their position may be, choosing to refer to other views as though they were written by a 3rd grader or from outerspace IS A PRETTY CLEAR VIOLATION of the rules set forth by the owners of this site.

    At this point, I think it's time for this thread to take a break. If you want to start up a thread about the greatest metric of all, feel free to do that in the baseball thread. But be respectful, especially knowing that there will likely be some reprocussions to this thread.

    For the time being, I'm closing this thread.

    My apologies to the bulk of the posters here who tried to keep this civil.

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  8. #127
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    There is an important distinction here: not all comments are statements of opinion.

    It is a fact that, in a small sample, defense-independent metrics are superior to ERA. It has been studied and proven statistically. It does not involve my "view" or "opinion." Likewise, it is a fact that high strand rates are not sustainable. My personal views have nothing to do with it at all.

    Indeed, I'm not convinced posters should be allowed to argue otherwise. If something is indisputable - meaning if it is equally certain to 2 + 2 =4 - then arguing against it seems like trolling.
    "2+2=4" is a fact. It doesn't matter what you do to that equation, how many times you run it, how many different ways you look at it, how much manipulation you do, the answer stays the same. It is a fact.

    "Defense-independent metrics are superior to ERA" is not a fact. It is a theory, supported by some research. It is most certainly not true in every case, for every situation, for every pitcher. It is not a fact.

    Arguing that it is, IMO, seems like asserting facts not in evidence.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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