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Thread: Mackey: Twins owner has '100% confidence' in Gardenhire and Ryan

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    Owner Big-Leaguer Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Mackey: Twins owner has '100% confidence' in Gardenhire and Ryan

    1500ESPN.com's Phil Mackey reported that Twins owner Jim Pohlad was on the field pre-game before the Twins/Angels contest. In response to the recent requests for the firings of many staffers, the owner said:

    "If we play the next 20 percent (of our games) the opposite we'll be at .500," Pohlad said. "So yes, the season is technically salvagable. ... But I suppose (calling for someone's job) would be the natural (reaction) for somebody who's not really part of the organization might say. A frustrated fan might say that."
    You have to respect the owner's loyalty to his staff but you have to wonder, is it merited?

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    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    That Pohlad even felt the need to express a dreaded vote of confidence is pretty telling in and of itself. Unless the season turns around dramatically, there are going to be more and more questions from the media, coupled with a higher and higher level of poutrage from the fan base, multiplied by empty seats at TF. It's ugly and growing uglier by the day.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    That Pohlad even felt the need to express a dreaded vote of confidence is pretty telling in and of itself. Unless the season turns around dramatically, there are going to be more and more questions from the media, coupled with a higher and higher level of poutrage from the fan base, multiplied by empty seats at TF. It's ugly and growing uglier by the day.
    Yes, yes and yes...its like you stole the words right out of my mouth. Or should I say keyboard.

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    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I'm not a Gardy hater. I thank him for the Central Titles. He's a Twin and always will be. However, Gardy won't survive the year (or at least off season) and I have gut feeling that TR will be against a manager change and will leave on good terms as a secondary result of Gardy.

    Thrylos you get can get ready to celebrate.

    I won't be celebrating cuz I'm not anti.

    The franchise has fallen and it will take change to resurrect it.

  5. #5
    Yep, I am reading the same. When they say that you have all their confidence... is because you don't. It would be unfortunate that Gardy's tenure ended this way, but then, it is the nature of their jobs.

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    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    They don't call it THE DREADED VOTE OF CONFIDENCE for nothing. I'd like to believe it is what it is but I'd also like to believe it is what isn't....but I can't. Hard times for sure.

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    Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'm not a Gardy hater. I thank him for the Central Titles. He's a Twin and always will be. However, Gardy won't survive the year (or at least off season) and I have gut feeling that TR will be against a manager change and will leave on good terms as a secondary result of Gardy.

    Thrylos you get can get ready to celebrate.

    I won't be celebrating cuz I'm not anti.

    The franchise has fallen and it will take change to resurrect it.
    Good. Been a good, loyal Twins fan a long time and I was a pretty good to very good Florida State player more than a few moons ago. I understood that TK had to move on, but over the years just got fed up with Gardenhire's monotonous stubbornness, luv of gritty subpar players and constant failure to advance in the numerous playoff chances. He just has always struck me as a bumptious near-idiot. Thought they should have bounced him five years ago. 7-21 coming off a 99 loss seaaon. They won't play for this man and why should they have to for another day?

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    Many a firing has come shortly after a "vote of confidence".

    I've always been a Gardy supporter, but I think both he and the Twins could benefit from a change. I would be surprised if it happened during the season. There's no reason to do that unless there's a particular replacement you have in mind and you want to grab him before someone lese does.

    A managerial change to save this season would be silly. That's like entering the Daytona 500 with a '73 Dodge Dart and thinking that changing drivers after a few laps will give you a chance to win.


    I see a mutual parting of the ways at season's end.

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    I don't know if it's as big a deal as some think but if we finish with 120+ losses, sure, Gardy's probably gone. But I'd be pretty surprised if we did anything during the season and I think if Gardy goes, Ryan is probably gone, too.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Hageman View Post
    1500ESPN.com's Phil Mackey reported that Twins owner Jim Pohlad was on the field pre-game before the Twins/Angels contest. In response to the recent requests for the firings of many staffers, the owner said:

    You have to respect the owner's loyalty to his staff but you have to wonder, is it merited?
    When I heard what Pohlad said, I remembered something and double-checked with Mackey and he confirmed it over twitter, and you can check the conversation here, if you care: Pohlad said that he had 100% conference on Bill Smith a bit before he fired him... So this is really not good news for the manager and the interim GM



    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'm not a Gardy hater. I thank him for the Central Titles. He's a Twin and always will be. However, Gardy won't survive the year (or at least off season) and I have gut feeling that TR will be against a manager change and will leave on good terms as a secondary result of Gardy.

    Thrylos you get can get ready to celebrate.

    I won't be celebrating cuz I'm not anti.

    The franchise has fallen and it will take change to resurrect it.
    Exactly... And I will not be celebrating, until they get a new GM and a manager from outside the organization. This organization has not won a title or being competitive in the post-season for 21 years and this is a long time. Unfortunately, new fans who started following the Twins in the mid to late 90s are calling the recent years a success... It's all about perspective, memories and where you set the bar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Exactly... And I will not be celebrating, until they get a new GM and a manager from outside the organization. This organization has not won a title or being competitive in the post-season for 21 years and this is a long time. Unfortunately, new fans who started following the Twins in the mid to late 90s are calling the recent years a success... It's all about perspective, memories and where you set the bar.
    Well, if your bar is World Series or bust, no hire is going to make you happy.

    And let's put some perspective on this. The Puckett Twins had 4 winning seasons and made the playoffs twice. I'd rather have the Twins last decade then the White Sox last decade. I suppose people can differ but I suspect most fans go away during those losing seasons and come back for the few winning seasons.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Boom Boom's Avatar
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    The Kiss of Death.

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    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post




    Exactly... And I will not be celebrating, until they get a new GM and a manager from outside the organization. This organization has not won a title or being competitive in the post-season for 21 years and this is a long time. Unfortunately, new fans who started following the Twins in the mid to late 90s are calling the recent years a success... It's all about perspective, memories and where you set the bar.
    What bar and perspective are you referring to? I've followed the Twins since 1975 and while '87 and '91 remain the pinnacles of success that does not diminish or change the perspective of what has been accomplished recently. Tom Kelly had 2 winning seasons in the 10 years he managed the Twins after they won in "91, are those the memories you are referring to? They had 2 winning seasons in the 10 years prior to winning in '87, are those the memories you cherish? In the 10 years since Ron Gardenhire took over this team they have had 8 winning season out of 10 and finished 1st in their division 6 times.

    The World Series will always be the bar for any team that has ever won it but it is not the only indicator of success. In my 27 years of being a fan of this team I have not witnessed a more consistent stretch of quality baseball but I have witnessed baseball just as bad as this, save a few more wins here and there, at that point its semantics.

    In my mind winning the World Series as a manager exaggerates your ability, it's about the players at that point, not the manager. Bobby Cox won 1 World Series and 15 division titles,he was a crappy manager because he only managed to win the big one once?

    I thank Ron Gardenhire for providing me with them most consistent stretch of winning baseball I have witnessed in 27 years. It's been a lot of fun.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    What bar and perspective are you referring to? .
    From the bottom to the top, here are the different settings of the bar:

    1- Awful - always finishing toward the bottom one of the worse teams in the majors
    2- Mediocre - Hovering around .500
    3- Competitive - Having a winning record and ocassionally winning divisions
    4- Compatitive in the post season - Winning at least a few post season series, making in to the WS
    5 - Champion - Winning the World Series.

    Believe me, with the Twins being mostly at 1, a lot of people (Including yourself apparently) are happy with being at 2 and 3, like they have been the Gardenhire years. I understand and respect that opinion even though I do not feel the same way. So please understand that some of us are not ok with 2 and 3 and think that this group of people who are running the Twins are complacent and set the bar at 2 and 3 and they can only get there. Some of us want 4 and 5. You don't agree, but at least respect our opinions and perspective. Now that the organization has turned from 2 and 3 more into 1, a lot more people are unhappy... So it is all about perspective and whether you are ok with being a B and C student or you expect As (to give you another analogy)
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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    In my mind winning the World Series as a manager exaggerates your ability, it's about the players at that point, not the manager. Bobby Cox won 1 World Series and 15 division titles,he was a crappy manager because he only managed to win the big one once?

    I thank Ron Gardenhire for providing me with them most consistent stretch of winning baseball I have witnessed in 27 years. It's been a lot of fun.
    I think this is where I disagree with you. Gardenhire was a part of those winning teams, sure, but there's a myriad of players you should also be thanking for winning divisions. Gardy himself didn't win divisions, just as Gardy himself didn't lose in the playoffs.

    Either the manager has something to do with the outcome of the game, or he doesn't. And if he doesn't, then anybody can manage a playoff team.

  16. #16
    I keep hearing how the team lacks fire. Is this because Gardy is a "player's manager" who nobody fears? Or is it because the roster lacks an emotional leader who will get in your face when necessary? I keep waiting for a Twins player to take a bat to a Gatorade bucket after yet another loss, but I can't imagine who on this team might have that much emotion. It sure ain't Joe or Justin...

    And, am I wrong in blaming Bill Smith for leaving the minor league cupboard bare? I've never seen the Twins with so few prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Well, if your bar is World Series or bust, no hire is going to make you happy.

    And let's put some perspective on this. The Puckett Twins had 4 winning seasons and made the playoffs twice. I'd rather have the Twins last decade then the White Sox last decade. I suppose people can differ but I suspect most fans go away during those losing seasons and come back for the few winning seasons.
    But isn't it all about winning the World Series? The White sox did in this past decade. Because of that season they also get to claim resurrection credit for Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" which is probably comparable to winning a second.

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    While I like the idea of the Twins "family", I hate the idea that they seldom bring in anybody new into the management structure. Even in real families, the dynamic changes frequently as members marry, divorceor die and children are born and grow up.

    The Twins "family" has just seemed to stagnate to me. When I go back and look at the front office and management staffs, there just isn't much turnover.

    And I think that has been part of what led to the current debacle. No one has been brought in with fresh ideas and energy to challenge the everyday thinking.

    And, unfortunately, since the dynamics didn't change gradually over time, I think we are now in for a sea change and it won't be pretty but it is necessary.

  19. #19
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    But isn't it all about winning the World Series?
    I don't know if it is ALL about winning a world series but I do think it is about going into the post-season with a belief that you CAN win the world series and in performing respectably in the post-season.

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    It's only May and already a dreaded vote of confidence. Gardy is probably going to be fired barring significant improvement. It's not his fault but that's just the way it goes in baseball.

    It seemed like the original plan with TR was for him to ultimately pick a new internal successor after Smith's failure, albeit without much of a timeline. Now though I think the timeline has been accelerated and the successor will have to be external. Ryan's input will still be significant but the current situation is not tenable given the state of the organization.

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